Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?

by Knowsnothing 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  cofty

  The OP contains a video of a debate involving Sam Harris.

  Harris is a moral realist, he believes that there are moral facts about the world that science is best equipped to investigate.

  He bases ethics on the quest to increase the well being of conscious creatures.

  In his book "The Moral Landscape" he describes a condition that could be called the worse possible suffering for everybody. Morality is about moving up from that deepest of all valleys in the Moral Landscape.

  It is possible to be mistaken about morality. It was once thought that slavery and misogyny was morally good. We were wrong about that. It turned out there was a better way to organise society that resulted in increased well being for more people. The Taliban think it is good to keep half of their society uneducated and dressed in a black bag. They are wrong. We should not excuse this sort of error on the basis or cultural relativism. It is not up to personal opinion, nor is it a matter of preference or might-is-right.

  I highly recommend the book, it is the most lucid and compelling argument against the myth that you "can't get an ought from an is".
• 

  Knowsnothing

  The Taliban think it is good to keep half of their society uneducated and dressed in a black bag. They are wrong.

  Meh... says you.

  We should not excuse this sort of error on the basis or cultural relativism. It is not up to personal opinion, nor is it a matter of preference or might-is-right.

  We simply don't have the resources for that. With limitless resources, sure. Reality is a whole other deal. Simply put, the whole world cannot become the US, nor Britain in your case, because the only reason there exists 'freedom' in these countries is the existing infrastructure supplied with quantious resources.

  It sounds terrible, but the implications of every single human being moving up to at least the middle class is disastrous and untenable.
• 

  jgnat

  I find Pinker's contribution very helpful.

  Pinker lists five “primary colors of our moral sense”: harm, fairness, community, authority, and purity.

  http://ronbc.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/steven-pinker-on-morality/

  We can't slot all in to black-and-white categories. Take for instance, hand-washing. We can call it "good", and even "very good" especially now that we've brushed close to pandemic. Yet we also have disorders where people compuslively hand-wash to the point where it is "bad" for them. It would fit in the "purity" category Pinker notes above. Indeed, many religions include bathing or washing as part of their ritual. But not all.
• 

  moshe

  Even monkeys know to steal your grapes when you aren't watching them-

  http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/DyeHard/story?id=603706&page=2#.ULFeCIacxt4
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  cofty

  Knowsnothing - I don't understand. I am talking about morality and you are talking about resources.

  The best thing the Taliban could do for the prosperity of their own society is to emancipate and educate their women.
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  jgnat

  Knowsnothing, check out this interactive graph that shows how the whole world (save a few sad exceptions) has raised it's standard of health and wealth since the 1950's. Yes there will always be gaps between the rich and the poor, but for the sake of social harmony, isn't it in our best interest to reduce the gap?

  Stop calling them developing countries
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  jgnat

  That would double their productivity, cofty.
• 

  Knowsnothing

  I highly recommend the book, it is the most lucid and compelling argument against the myth that you "can't get an ought from an is".

  Cofty, can you expand on that? I don't quite understand. My understanding is that just because something 'is', doesn't mean you 'ought' to do it?
• 

  botchtowersociety

  It sounds terrible, but the implications of every single human being moving up to at least the middle class is disastrous and untenable.

  I disagree. I expect eventually the vast majority will live what we currently consider to be a middle class economic level. Of course, by then, it probably won't be considered to be middle class any longer, since the economic "middle class" is a relative designation, not an absolute one. And I think it won't even be disastrous or untenable.
• 

  Knowsnothing

  I don't understand. I am talking about morality and you are talking about resources.

  The best thing the Taliban could do for the prosperity of their own society is to emancipate and educate their women. - Cofty

  Once those women are educated, along with the Muslim society in general, they will demand and want the same luxuries we take for granted. This puts a huge strain on what is already a taxed world.

  You can't separate morality from economy, Cofty. Sorry.