by everchangingworld 159 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The way I perceive this is simply that you have worked and reworked your understanding until it fit---but you never seriously considered that it really doesn't fit. I used to so that too--it's excruciating
Actually, the first thing I considered was the easiest thing, that it doesn't fit.
"I'm of the position that everything that lives is and has a soul. "
Parasites have souls?
Just dropping in real quick:
I believe in theistic evolution as well.
Like Tec, I believe a living thing’s true nature, both human and animal, is spirit. I believe the material world is a manifestation or subset of a greater reality, which is ultimately spiritual.
I believe Adam=Man=Humankind. I don’t think the writer of the J-source creation story ever meant for it to be taken literally.
cofty, thank you: I believe what I got from my reads, that it was fine tuning all the way, one increment at the time , rather than the big mutations. the final, or present steps giving those elegant shapes. and the bird brains to go with it. Butterflies with brains like a pinhead, going south for the winter! wow.
I also believe,- because development is to take best advantage of energy, matter and laws-, that evolution would automaticly be an ascent wwith perfection as a "target".
according to religion-speak we are decendants of Adam, degenerate adams,--but-- evolution has us as ASCENDET microbes, shrews, comon ancesters also called (other) Primates.
so believing in evolution has another plus, you are an Ascendent, UP, not an Descendent, Down.
you can see how the bible has subtely shaped our thinking., Luther, Tyndale et al were believers in ADAM degenerating descending toward us. blessings.
Actually, the bible speaks of us eventually evolving BEYOND being humans as we are now.
What is holding us back now is our "fallen nature" that is has nothing to do with us BEING HUman but that keeps us from being FULLY Human in the way God "created' Us to be.
While when we physically die our spirit is "liberated" from our "fleshy prisons", they are prisons of our own making as we seek to be apart from God rather than giving into God and becoming one with God and thus unleashing ALL our human potential. Our resurrected bodies will be far more highly evolved than our current ones and not "slaves" to our current limitations both physically AND mentally.
The bible and in particular the NT, points to an evolution of man in the greatest sense.
I don't look at it in the context of up and down, nor the idea that perfection is a target. Even if such a thing could be achieved, it would only be perfection for a moment, because the environment would change, and therefore, the perfection lost.
I think more in terms of adaptation. We may look at extinct species and conclude that better species came along to replace them, but that would not be accurate. In fact, the extinct species at one time was the best equipped to deal with its environment, and the later species may not have survived in the older environment. Adaptation. The species best adapted to the environment will be most successful. If the environment changes, and the species cannot adapt, it will go extinct. It's not a question of better or targets, it simply is what it is.
evolution would automaticly be an ascent wwith perfection as a "target".
No this is to misunderstand evolution, it has no target.
You seem to be attached to a common myth that was known as the “Great Chain of Being” with god reigning supreme over all his creatures in their place.
In fact it makes no sense to think in terms of higher or lower creatures.
For example, it seems obvious that chimpanzees are higher animals than earthworms doesn’t it? We may even assume that evolution makes this fact even clearer and justifies it. In fact such thinking is deeply flawed and antithetical to evolution.
Consider what we may actually mean when we assert that chimps are “higher” than earthworms.
1. Perhaps we have in mind that monkeys evolved from earthworms - This is a just plain wrong, chimps and worms share a common ancestor. It is this kind of thinking that causes creationists to ask daft questions like why are there still chimps today if they evolved into humans? Or, where are the fossils of all the crocoducks or fronkeys? Australian creationist John McKay has been touring British schools, masquerading as a geologist, and teaching children this kind of nonsense.
2. We may mean that the common ancestor of chimps and worms looked a lot more like a worm than a monkey – This may be true but it really tells us nothing useful about the two creatures we are comparing. It’s just as likely that both animals have diverged equally in different directions from their common ancestor. Also it is likely that different parts of an animal will be more or less “primitive” than other parts. For example a horses hoof is simpler than a human foot (it has a single digit to our 5) but it is the human foot that is more “primitive” our common ancestor had 5 digits.
3. Often there are any one of a number of odd assertions in our mind when we try to rank animals by some arbitrary scale – cleverer, prettier, bigger genomes, more complicated body plans etc. These are all pointless judgements. Animals may rank highly on one ladder and poorly on another. A salamander has a smaller brain than some mammals but it has a bigger genome!
4. Often we are in fact judging how much an animal is similar to us humans when we rank them in our minds. Why? This is a very important point that we need to get over if we are going to understand the world. Evolution had no point, it has not been slaving away all these years for the purpose of making you and I. This is why we find ourselves asking questions like “what is the point of cockroaches?” There is no point; they are gene machines just like us. Do not make the mistake of using humans as the gold standard of living things.
5. OK so at least are chimps are better evolved to survive than lower animals? This assumption just does not hold up. Insects rule the world while some of our most majestic creature teeter on the edge of extinction.
Evolution is a purposeless process.
What is holding us back now is our "fallen nature" that is has nothing to do with us BEING HUman but that keeps us from being FULLY Human in the way God "created' Us to be.
I don't understand this statement. You said that at some point, humans received a spirit. Were they at some point of perfection? How did they reach such a point without a spirit? And then they fell? In what way? What have humans done to change their evolution so that they are not fully human in the way that God 'created' them to be---through evolution? Break this down. How does it work?
No this is to misunderstand evolution, it has no target.
HAH! For ONCE I beat you to it, AND used less words than you! You will never forget this day, Cofty! 'Tis a highlight of my posting life. I am more evolved!
NC hahahaha - That serves me right for copy-and-pasting from my own posts!!!
