by 00DAD 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
wha happened? the conversation may end there but hopefully the thinking doesn't.
Thank you, blondie, for laying out so succinctly how to lay out safe groundwork for an exiting Witness.
baalamsass, spam is uncool and plain doesn't work. Marketer Seth Godin lists it as "broken". It disrespects the reader.
Disclaimer...I posted recently under the handle featherimiss (created a new account...because I could not remember my old account)..anyhow...I remember my password to happytobefree...so I will use this name.
Moshe stated:
The only human being whose opinion you can change is your own. A person has the right to believe in a weird religious dogma and to foolishly waste their life peddling WT literature. If you can stop wondering how you can get stubborn JWs to think like ex-JWs do, the happier you will be.
It reminds me of the opening line of M. Scott Peck book The Road Less Traveled... "Life is difficult." Once you accept that, it becomes a lot easier!
When my eyes were opened to the WTBS...I thought it was my mission to help the others out. When in essence the only person on the face of the earth am I responsible for is MYSELF. Most are adults who have chosen the religion. And the best way to help children to be free is to live an AWESOME Life. They are looking for you to be the depraved immoral apostate loser.
So when I started thinking about how much life I needed to catch up on living...I forgot about the JW's. But guess what they didn't forget about me..I from a small area...so they would hear about my accomplishments, even read a few in the local newspaper. Then my sisters started asking me questions about my activites...simple things like the jewelry making class, the exercise class, taking college courses. So they started doing some of the innocent activities...and then their minds opened up. Now the JW continue to read and see the great accoplishments of my children, neices and nephews who have left the organization. And this has been the best way to get others to at least feel comfortable to speak with you and this is when you can put subtle messages to them. My nephew was just elected President of the Student Council...my sister said she was so shocked that my elder father called to congratulate him on this great accomplishment.
...so I really believe the best Witness...Is to live a great.
I don't remember what movie this quote is from...But it say get busy living or you can get busy dying.
One thing that Steve Hassan candidly admits, is that if a person is truly happy as a member of a high-control group, they are probably not going to exit.
That is an important realisation. If a person loves it and is happy, they will be unlikely to risk the unknown of leaving. There usually needs to be a shock, a disappointment for them to entertain other points of view.
The Shunning is a great DVD to watch, about the excommunication of an Amish girl. It is easy to criticise Amish shunning in front of a JW. "How could they be so heartless?The poor girl never chose to be Amish, she had no choice, so why should she be punished if she wants to leave? How can they throw her out, with noboby and no support system, into the world? ... It must be a bit like that for a Witness that is shunned."
moshe
cedars, you haven't officially quit the KH , yet.
So your personal criteria for no longer being trapped within a cult is whether you are willing to leave and risk being shunned by your family? Fair enough.
I've heard the "faders are cowards" mentality expressed on this forum before. King Solomon was one. Rick Fearon was another. Is that your view? I always took you for a wiser and more balanced person than those two individuals.
When it comes to a large JW family, getting them out without exposing yourself is a secretive operation needing the skills of James bond to pull it off.
That's slightly different than what you said at first. You made it sound impossible to get even one family member out, hence my response about your comments being "defeatest". If you're now revising your statement, then once again, fair enough.
Cedars
I think jwfacts makes an excellent point in his first post in this thread. He mentions the importance of introduction of “education that undermines their beliefs, but that does not seem connected to their beliefs. Things like Ted.com, that show how remarkable scientific advancement is.”
Almost every time I have had the occasion to explain my exit from the organization to someone, I cite the key role of National Public Radio. I became an NPR listener approximately 5 years before I quit attending meetings. When you are constantly bombarded with nonsense made up to be “intellectual” at The Kingdom Hall, it is remarkably refreshing to actually have your brain stimulated by actual intelligent discussion. NPR does this.
NPR forces its listeners to be open to experience, it challenges their pre-conceived thoughts and biases. NPR is an expose on humanity and it puts its listeners in touch with their fellow man in a very important way.
The topics discussed on many of the national programs relate to religion, faith, culture, social issues and history. I remember the first time I heard Terry Gross interview Bart Ehrman. I couldn’t wait to discuss it with an elder I had coffee with the next morning. (He just looked at me like I had 3 eyes, and I dismissed the subject, but I was thrilled!)
Shortly after becoming an NPR listener, I began purchasing books that were being discussed on the shows which led to a further opening of my mind. TED was another valuable resource, but I didn’t become familiar with it until I was already near my exit.
I think there is a lot to what you’re suggesting, 00DAD. But, there isn’t a one-size-fits-all answer to getting love ones out. Learning to see things form a different perspective is vital and even though it may not lead your loved ones to leave the organization, it will certainly accelerate the process if they ever get dislodged from their mental prison.
Great thread.
On a related note, I think my mother felt threatened by my obsession with NPR and non-fiction books well before I had even thought about leaving the organization. I remember her expressing concern on a few occasions that I was filling my head with worldly thoughts.
I'm glad I did.
For reference:
Ehrman on Fresh Air regarding why we suffer:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19096131
Ehrman on Fresh Air regarding the contradictions in the gospels:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124572693
If you ask someone in the cult, what is it that attracts you to it, each person gives a different answer. So too, they each need a different angle/subject matter to see it differently, there is no one way to do this.
Dropping hints that don't immediately appear to have a direct blast hopefully gets their minds working, don't expect anything overnight though as much as we want it. Using examples such as Steve Hassan or other may be helpful. Doctrinal changes are good too for others. Different things trigger different emotions for different people.
I'm late to this thread but really enjoyed reading it. Some excellent comments and experiences.
I think the point of getting JWs to look at their religion from a new perspective is a very good one. Holding up a mirror without them realising who they are looking at.
I think it was jgnat who mentioned the "Stepford Wives" - that's a great example. Often these things have a long slow burn fuse, don't expect instant results.
I watched a documentary on the Amish community, the basic similarities were unmistakable.
I completely forgot about some articles I wrote a while back for JWstruggle.com
They point out the similarities between the Westboro Baptist Church (the Phelps family) and Jehovah's Witnesses.
Here are the links...
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/10/a-troubling-comparison-part-1/
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/10/a-troubling-comparison-part-2/
If you're looking for material that points out in a graphic and disturbing way the damaging traits of cults without mentioning Jehovah's Witnesses, I would highly recommend two documentary films by Louis Theroux entitled "The Most Hated Family In America" and (the follow-up episode) "America's Most Hated Family In Crisis". Both should still be available on YouTube.
Cedars
