I got hubby to watch a couple episodes of "Breaking Amish" before he caught on. First the show would flash a scripture, and hubby would say, "That's true", then he would watch in horror how it applied in real life and say "That is wrong", then he just got quiet.
Reaching Loved Ones Stuck in a Cult: An Idea for Discussion
by 00DAD 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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00DAD
Wow, everyone, just wow. So many great insights, comments and suggestions.
There are definitely some common themes emerging, but also some really thought-provoking ideas that I would have never thought of on my own. This is the amazing thing about a forum like this and the collaborative process.
Keep those ideas flowing. I'm loving it!
00DAD
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cofty
This is the sort of thread that shows the real value of the forum.
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flipper
Lots of really great thoughts here. Thanks for posting the thread 00DAD - so we can all put our heads together.
In talking to my nieces and nephews who have exited the JW cult as well as my son and in my own situation - a common thread seems to be prevalent - most of us went through suffering some kind of injustices, or our personal boundaries were trampled underfoot by elders in congregations which shocked us to our senses into seeing there was no such thing as " holy spirit " running the congregations. It kind of made the scales fall from all of our eyes that the whole WT organization is a facade , a fake.
As JW FACTS and others stated until a JW has something unjust happen to them that affects them drastically personally , if they are deep in the cult mindset they won't wake up. In my opinion another thing that can help an individual to wake up is being physically ill or sick where they are forced to miss many meetings so that the synapses in the brain won't be subject to having to hear mind controlled droning indoctrination methods constantly bombarding the brain. That way synapses controlling the nerve impulses and flow of information to the mind can make new information paths inside the brain which will change a non-attending JW's mindset gradually. So until JW's stop missing meetings, it's really tough because they are getting the constant indoctrination processes pounded into their concsiousness .
As Steve Hassan states all cult members are controlled through mainly FEAR and GUILT. So it takes building a rapport with a JW cult member at first to develop trust with that person in order for them to not fear US or feel guilty for LISTENING to us. So as Hassan says we have to be very careful not to turn a cult member off by speaking negatively towards the organization or we'll close down any progress reaching them. I feel in dealing with my JW daughters by just trying to be there for them, letting them know I love them that in time I'll reach them.
00DAD, I'm going to take your advice you shared with me on my thread about my daughter regarding what Steve Hassan says in his new book about writing my daughters and ask her if I've done anything that's offended her and I'll apologize if I've done so. In that way it may let her see that I'm humbling myself in order to understand where she's at in her life. I believe by putting ourself on their level ( not by compromising our beliefs ) but by just acknowledging their views and being there for them in a fatherly way I hope to lower her guard so as to not be afraid or paranoid about me.
In time once the rapport is re-established with them then I can share what I've seen happening in other religions that are unjust - things that may happen in the Witnesses too- but help them to possibly do a subconscious comparison on their own- without connecting the dots for them. Let THEM connect the dots in time themselves. So, that's some of the stuff I've learned from board members like you and others as well as reading Steve Hassan's books. Also a big thing is helping them get over their phobia's or unreasonable fears. But that comes in time by building rapport first. That's kind of where I'm at now with my daughters right now- just starting to build rapport. It's a long road and patience is a must. I've got time so I'll be patient. Good luck on your sons too 00DAD
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A.M. Number 1
Great thoughts. I think we should likewise realize that THE WORD (or words in general) is not the territory either. i think people's reverence towards words is a far greater problem and further reaching. Anybody who believes that the Bible is the infallible word of God, or that their perspective is God's perspective, actually believe that the words ARE the reality.
coming to the understanding that words are vague aproximations of reality and fall incredibly short in describing truth and reality was among the first things that I learned in college that really unstuck my mind from Watchtower programming.
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snare&racket
"Instead, what if, bit by bit, we could encourage them to consider things from a slightly different perspective, to get them to look at reality from a different point of view? If we could do that, then they would begin to see what a flat illusion JW "theology" really is."
I did exactly this, it takes about two years sometimes less. But so far it has worked with several people. Just put the ball in their court and ask them for an explination for basic harmless things like where do blood fractions come from, how old are dinosaurs, where do we get 607 from, when was the bible written? Just leave them to find the answers in their own time.....
Once the door is open, I asked them to read these verses. The person I did this with last had daughters and so it was easy to frame a relevant question. These verses have really helped change the views of 4 adults, 3 of which are now left.
Isaiah 13: 9, 15,16
1 Samuel 15:2-3
Exodus 21:7-11
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:7-11
Exodus 21:2-6
Exodus 21:20-21
Colossians 3:22 Ephesians 6:5 1 Timothy 6:1-2( Slavery is also not condemned in New Testament)
Zechariah 14:1-3
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
1 Kings 13: 1&2
Jeremiah 51:20-23
Jeremiah 11:22-22
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:1-54
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Deuteronomy 21:10-15
2 Samuel 12: 13, 14, 18
2 Kings 2:23-24
Hosea 9:11-16
Ezekiel 9:5-7
Exodus 12:29-30
Leviticus 26:3,4,9, 18-22
Joshua 8 : 18-27
Deuteronomy 22:23-27
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jwfacts
A.M. Number 1 coming to the understanding that words are vague aproximations of reality and fall incredibly short in describing truth and reality was among the first things that I learned in college that really unstuck my mind from Watchtower programming.
Interesting. What did you study at Uni?
The big thing for me was the Trinity. I was convinced that it was wrong and at least on that JWs were correct. But studying the different sides, I came to the realisation of how illogical it is for humans to expect to be able to describe a God of a supernatural dimension with words.
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whathappened
Ding: I thought about your friend. You know if you really don't understand something you can't usually explain it to others. He may believe the Witnesses have the truth, but not really understand why he believes it. He may be afraid to go in field service in case he gets asked to explain some of the crazy doctrines JW's teach.
00Dad: I sure wish I had handled my daughter differently, doing something a little less bold like you are purposing. It makes sense to go soft at first. I am still not having any luck freeing my daughter from this cult. I will follow this thread closely to see if I can somehow reboot her for another go round.
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Vanderhoven7
marked
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Pterist
Don Cameron's approach in his book " captives of a concept", seems less confrontational than discussing topics of truth with a JW. My first book study was "the truth that leads to eternal life" however, I had no idea of the history of JWs.
Interest should be shown in a study on the history of their organisation and in that way the JW can be made aware from the watchtower's OWN publication's all the many changes through the years and all the out of print obsolete publications.
Shalom