Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church (page 11)

unstopableravens

quick about listen slow about speaking lol

myelaine

dear Christ Alone...

I wasn't arguing with you, I was striving for clarity

love michelle

myelaine

thank you for the great thread cofty

a thought I'd like share regarding the OP...the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit existed in perfect unity...until the time of the incarnation.

Jesus said: "before abraham was, I AM"...wouldn't that suggest that the proper name of the pre-incarnate Son is YHWH...not Jesus?

I think that the proper pre-incarnate name "YHWH" would be important in establishing why it was prophesied that "the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call His name Immanuel". isaiah 7:14...which is translated, "God with us". matthew 1:23.

perhaps the JW doesn't recognise the importance of the name Immanuel in prophesy and that is another reason that they don't hold the same view of Jesus as the early church.

love michelle

mP

I love how people go about making statements about early xians when the truth is we know next to nothing about them. Except for what amounts to barely a few lines scattered amongst Acts and some of Pauls writings thats all we have. They could not have been a very nice bunch because they had slaves and they treated them so well they ran away aka Philemon. Everything your stating as facts is based on absolutely nothing.

myelaine

dear mP...

you said: "I love how people go about making statements about early xians when the truth is we know next to nothing about them...they treated them [slaves] so well they ran away aka Philemon"...

you just stated that onesimus ran away because he was being treated badly...you don't know that but you state it as fact.

The few words we do have suggest he could have "ran away" to hear paul and while with him he became a believer(v. 10)..."For perhaps he departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother, especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord." philemon 15-16

love michelle

Christ Alone

Mp must not have read anything about the early church outside the nt. no ignatius, mp? No polycarp or irenaeus? No, we know more about the early church than just from acts and th epistles.

ÁrbolesdeArabia

Mp, you are correct history is silent on Xians fine works from 36Ad to 500 AD, they overcame the Roman empire out of pure selfish immorral and hateful behaviour while great humans like Nero, Caligula, Trajan, Marcus Aurelious secured the heart of the population with their great acts of love and charity. Tacitus, Suetoneus, Senneca write of the great charity the Romans had for everyone.

This forum has taught me a new concept, that Jesus did not have a pre-human existence but came into existence by using "part-human part Jehovah" into a "new creation". Fundies, JWs, Mormons and Islam do have ideas that Jesus did have a existence before he volunteered to "humble himself and take on the form of a slave" to prove Satan a liar, and provide his blood so we could have life. Will a Christian die if he does not believe "Jesus is Jehovah", or a third essense of God, I can't find that in the New Testament, it's not there. If a Christian believes Jesus is a god, but nor subordinate to the Father, able to do his own will, I can't find that concept either, perhaps we can go this route and discuss why Jehovah gave Jesus a "name above every other name" when he already had the highest name in Heaven (If he is Jehovah). (Phillipians 2:1-8)

unstopableravens

the word other is added in the nwt ,its not in any other bible

mP

@my

dear mP...

you said: "I love how people go about making statements about early xians when the truth is we know next to nothing about them...they treated them [slaves] so well they ran away aka Philemon"...

you just stated that onesimus ran away because he was being treated badly...you don't know that but you state it as fact.

love michelle

@MP:

Well the simple answer is he was treated badly and thats why he ran away. If things were fine at home he would not have run. Thats basic common sense, to think the opposite is absurd. Regardless of the situation at his former home, Paul fails here for failing to condemn the slave master. THink of the good example for the future he could have set if he said slavery is evil, the Lord wants all slaves to be free.

@MIChelle:

The few words we do have suggest he could have "ran away" to hear paul and while with him he became a believer(v. 10)..."For perhaps he departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave but more than a slave, as a beloved brother, especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord." philemon 15-16

mP:

What kind of brother keeps another as a slave ? Slavery is evil and to do it to your own blood is completely unforgivable. NOtice no where in your quote does Paul condemn the master, slavery or even hint at this.

I know slavery was common back then, this just shows that claiming xianity is a fount of good moral teachings is utter crap.

mP

@Christ:

Mp must not have read anything about the early church outside the nt. no ignatius, mp? No polycarp or irenaeus? No, we know more about the early church than just from acts and th epistles.

mP:

Polycarp and Irenaus are nearly 150 years after Paul. A lot changes in that time, just look at our own world, ignoring technology the social changes have been quite significant. The same was true of those times, nothing is static.

Care to revise your statement ? Lets not forget Irenaus states in his writings that Jesus died because of old age, shows how in touch he was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireneus

This means that Christ goes through every stage of human life, from infancy to old age, and simply by living it, sanctifies it with his divinity. Although it is sometimes claimed that Irenaeus believed Christ did not die until he was older than is conventionally portrayed, the bishop of Lyons simply pointed out that because Jesus turned the permissible age for becoming a rabbi (30 years old and above), he recapitulated and sanctified the period between 30 and 50 years old, as per the Jewish custom of periodization of human life, and so touches the beginning of old age when one becomes 50 years old. (see Adversus Haereses, book II, chapter 22 ).

Do you believe anything Iraneus says now ? Are you sure hes writing about the same people you think you know ?

Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

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