What would Jesus think of Crosses everywhere?

by Simon 100 Replies latest social humour

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  NewChapter

  If someone put a bullet in Hitler's head before he killed millions of people, I would not frame the gun or wear images of it around my neck. I would not elevate the gun used to holy proportions. There is a hero behind that gun, and I may honor him or her. There are principals behind that gun, and I may hold those principals. But I'm not going to build buildings and put statues of that gun out front. The JW analogy is not horrific. Clothing oneself in an implement of torture is.

  So much could be used to symbolize Jesus and the principals he taught. A loaf of bread. That could certainly represent life, the word, salvation. The ancient Aztecs practiced human sacrifice too. They did this for reasons that were valid to them. Yet most Christians would be repulsed if archeologists were to find that they wore knives used for sacrifce as decorations about their necks. Or even more shocking would be images of bleeding hearts recently evicted from living chests.

  But make images of the bleeding heart of Jesus or Mary, and superimpose an image of an implement of torture, and it's a holy image.

  The mind is a twisty-turny place.
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  notjustyet

  That is a hilarious thought!!! JFK coming back,... I mean come on!!!

  NJY
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  Pterist

  If we consider when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus in the gospel of John chapter 3, He compared how blessings and healing came when Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert and applied it to himself as being LIFTED up, so the gift of eternal life would be available, as he conquered that snake....

  However, this pole in the wilderness although allowed as an object for healing became an IDOL in itself when through ignorance and or superstition the REAL MEANING was corrupted.

  So if an object like a cross is used as a "lucky" charm it would be idoltery, if the cross or pole is seen as what it REPRESENTS to our redemption then it's no big deal.
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  Christ Alone

  So much could be used to symbolize Jesus and the principals he taught. A loaf of bread. That could certainly represent life, the word, salvation.

  But Jesus was not just a prophet that preached and showed love. Otherwise He would have been no different from others that did the same (i.e Ghandi or Buddha). Jesus significance was that He was God who came to sacrifice His body for man. His death is the entire significance of Christianity. His death for our sins. Paul spoke of "the message of the cross". (1Cor 1:18) It is this message that is of the greatest importance to Christians. Like was already brought out, I think, Paul decided not to know ANYTHING but Jesus and Him crucified.

  Also, there are other symbols that were used by Chrisitians. It was/is not just the cross that is the symbol of Christianity. The Ichthys is a good example. Jesus taught to be fishers of men. Early Christians used the fish as a symbol of their faith in that command.
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  NewChapter

  I find that problematic. The cross IS held up as an idol. As far as JW's and the 'stake' issue---they don't actually hold that stake up as anything. It's not like a cross. It has not become some wierd symbol or idol. And although it can be argued that it is a phallic symbol, I think in this context that argument falls flat. Sometimes a stake is just a stake. It's what you make of it. Unless you think that anything of a certain shape is automatically a phallic symbol. In which case, cucumbers, bananas and corn on the cob would be a god creating phallic symbols, and using pens and pencils would become a bit dodgy.

  So JW's don't add significance to the stake beyond that it was a stake.

  There is significance behind the cross. Deep significance. And to reason that it is not an idol is simply cognitive dissonance.
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  Christ Alone

  So if an object like a cross is used as a "lucky" charm it would be idoltery, if the cross or pole is seen as what it REPRESENTS to our redemption then

  it's no big deal.

  Good point, Pterist. The copper serpent was important to the salvation of Israel. But later on they ended up worshiping this image, and it was idolatry. 2Kings 18:4 says: " He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it."
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  Christ Alone

  NC, what is an idol to you? Isn't an idol something that you worship? Can you find me an example of Chrisitans saying that it is ok to worship the cross? You say that at least JWs don't regard the stake as a symbol. True. But do they regard this image as a representing symbol that they hold in high regard?

  This is the symbol that represents who they are. Why is THIS not idolatry, but someone seeing the cross as a symbol of Christianity IS? I agree that some Catholics honor the cross in a way that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. But this seems to be the exception more than the rule in Christianity.

  So JW's don't add significance to the stake beyond that it was a stake.

  Also...does it really matter? It wasn't a stake without a crossbeam anyway, so THAT argument falls flat.
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  NewChapter

  But Jesus was not just a prophet that preached and showed love. Otherwise He would have been no different from others that did the same (i.e Ghandi or Buddha). Jesus significance was that He was God who came to sacrifice His body for man. His death is the entire significance of Christianity. His death for our sins. Paul spoke of "the message of the cross". (1Cor 1:18) It is this message that is of the greatest importance to Christians. Like was already brought out, I think, Paul decided not to know ANYTHING but Jesus and Him crucified.

  And bread also represents Jesus's body---which he sacrificed. Bread would be a good idol. Why not idolize the body, which symbolizes the true sacrifice rather than the implementation of torture----afterall----beheading him would have worked just as well. But isn't it the body that was sacrificed the important part, as symbolized by the bread, and not the instrument used? Then there is the blood/wine. I'm all for idolizing wine.
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  Christ Alone

  Technically we DO worship Jesus body...
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  botchtowersociety

  The cross IS held up as an idol.

  No it isn't. These objects aren't worshipped. I have two crucifixes in my home, and I do not worship them. I worship God alone. Nothing else is worthy of worship.

  As far as JW's and the 'stake' issue---they don't actually hold that stake up as anything. It's not like a cross. It has not become some wierd symbol or idol. ....

  ...There is significance behind the cross. Deep significance. And to reason that it is not an idol is simply cognitive dissonance.

  This sounds very much like what a JW would say. But it is true there is deep significance behind the cross.