Last night in the Jeremiah Book

by BroMac 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  BroMac

  further on this: What is the correct dating of Daniel 1:1,2? . see the footnote of this paragraph 17

  *** jr chap. 2 pp. 24-25 Serving in “the Final Part of the Days” ***

  THE RISE OF BABYLON

  17 In 625 B.C.E., the Babylonians and Egyptians fought a decisive battle at Carchemish, near the Euphrates River some 370 miles [600 km] north of Jerusalem. King Nebuchadnezzar vanquished Pharaoh Necho’s forces, ending Egyptian power in the region. (Jer. 46:2) Nebuchadnezzar now dominated Judah, and Jehoiakim was forced to be his servant. After three years of vassalage, however, Jehoiakim rebelled. (2 Ki. 24:1, 2) In response, Nebuchadnezzar and his army marched into Judah in 618 B.C.E. and surrounded Jerusalem. Try to picture how turbulent a time that was, even for God’s prophet Jeremiah. Jehoiakim apparently met his end during the siege. His son Jehoiachin surrendered to the Babylonians after occupying Judah’s throne for just three months. Nebuchadnezzar stripped Jerusalem of its riches and took into exile Jehoiachin, the families of the king and of the nobles of Judah, the nation’s mighty men, and its craftsmen. Among the exiles were Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah.—2 Ki. 24:10-16; Dan. 1:1-7.

  *** jr chap. 2 p. 24 Serving in “the Final Part of the Days” *** Daniel 1:1, 2 says that Jehoiakim was given into Nebuchadnezzar’s hand in Jehoiakim’s third year, apparently of his vassalage. This may mean that the king died during the siege, which ultimately succeeded. There is no Biblical confirmation of Josephus’ report that Nebuchadnezzar killed Jehoiakim and had his body thrown outside Jerusalem’s walls without a burial.—Jer. 22:18, 19; 36:30.
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  Bobcat

  BroMac:

  Jehoiakim was placed on the throne by Necho in 609

  Nebuchadnezzar invaded Judah (Hatti land, which included Judah) in 605. A footnote in the New American Commentary, p.97, concerning Daniel 1:1, 2 says:

  E. Thiele, a leading authority on Biblical chronology, appears to be correct in concluding that Daniel used the Judean (Tishri) calendar, whereas Jeremiah followed the alternative Babylonian (Nisan) system in Jer 46:2 (Mysterius Numbers, 183).

  There is more to the explanation in the NAC, but the point made is that according to the calendar that Daniel was using, this invasion happened in the third year of Jehoiakim's ruling. But by the calendar that Jeremiah was using it was the fourth year.

  This invasion would be the one that Daniel was carried off in.

  Others can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the WT maintains that there were only two deportations by the Babylonians (617, 607). Whereas, secular history has that there were three: 605, 598, 587

  The WT comment about Josephus is both interesting and curious. Especially since that is all they say about it. It sounds like they don't want Josephus to be believed for some reason. (Not that he is inspired, but the note had a curious sound to it.) Incidentally, the Josephus comment can be found at Ant. 10.6.3. Best I can tell, Josephus is simply reporting what the Bible predicted, as he understood it. The Babylonian Chronicle, according to the NICOT commentary on Jeremiah say that Nebuchadnezzar did not kill Jehoiakim. Rather, that he was already dead when he entered the city in 598. The NICOT commentary posits that, since Jehoiakim rebelled, a pro-Babylonian faction within jerusalem may have killed him and had his body tossed out as a sign of submission to the Babylonians.

  Hope this helps some. And I also hope, if there are mistakes, or more to add, that some one will chime in.
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  BroMac

  Bobcat thank you very much I'll give that another read through tomorrow.

  the footnote just does not read right to me, was it Jehoiakim's 3rd year on the throne (8yrs remaining) OR was it his 3rd year as the Jeremiah book says "apparently" as vassal King in service to Nebuchadnezzar?

  basically are the WT correct in stating that it was the 3rd year of Jehoiakim's vassalage to King Neb at Dan 1:1,2? If the WT/JW only accept 2 exiles and not the 3 I dont think they can be correct.....

  gotta go to bed!
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  Bobcat

  BroMac:

  The problem for the Society is their dating. It creates problems for them. All sorts of little details don't mesh and so they have to "explain" things.

  Daniel said it just as it was: (Daniel 1:1) ". . .In the third year of the kingship of Je·hoi′a·kim . . ." It was in the 3rd year of his reigning. And the commentary cited above clears up the discrepancy with Jer 46:2.

  They do this with Daniel 2:1 also: " . . .And in the second year of the kingship of Neb·u·chad·nez′zar, . . ." The Daniel prophecy book explains that this was in the 2nd year after Neb. sacked Jerusalem. (605 by WT dating.) In reality it was 604/3, which was, just as Daniel said, 'in the 2nd year of Neb's kingship'

  Gotta go.
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  AnnOMaly

  There is NO warrant for interpreting "the third year of the kingship of Jehoiakim" as "the third year of the vassalage of Jehoiakim" or interpreting "the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar" as "the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign as world ruler" after Jerusalem's destruction, in 'reality' his 20th year of kingship (Daniel's Prophecy, p. 46). No warrant.

  Others can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the WT maintains that there were only two deportations by the Babylonians (617, 607). Whereas, secular history has that there were three: 605, 598, 587

  Josephus (reporting Berossus' account) indicates some Jews were taken captive after the battle of Carchemish and before Neb raced off to secure the throne after learning his father had died. That's summer/fall 605 BCE.

  The Babylonian Chronicle says Neb came back to the region pretty quickly (late 605 - early 604 BCE) and "took heavy tribute" ('tribute' can include captives). Dan. 1:1, 2 fits with this 605/4 BCE period.

  The Chronicle and the Bible say Neb came back another time (597 BCE) and besieged Jerusalem, resulting in Jehoiachin's surrender and a massive deportation.

  Then there's another siege of Jerusalem which ended in the city being destroyed and more captives taken (587 BCE).

  Finally, Jeremiah 52 indicates another rounding up of Jewish captives in Neb's 23rd year (582 BCE).
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  Bobcat

  Ann:

  Thanks for the further insight.
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  BroMac

  They do this with Daniel 2:1 also: " . . .And in the second year of the kingship of Neb·u·chad·nez′zar, . . ." The Daniel prophecy book explains that this was in the 2nd year after Neb. sacked Jerusalem. (605 by WT dating.) In reality it was 604/3, which was, just as Daniel said, 'in the 2nd year of Neb's kingship' - Bobcat

  There is NO warrant for interpreting "the third year of the kingship of Jehoiakim" as "the third year of the vassalage of Jehoiakim" or interpreting "the second year of the kingship of Nebuchadnezzar" as "the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign as world ruler" after Jerusalem's destruction, in 'reality' his 20th year of kingship ( Daniel's Prophecy , p. 46). No warrant. -AnnOMaly

  Ah yes, thank you. that explains alot. That is really bad interpretation, to read into something that fits an already held belief. why not just believe what it actually says and go from there. Nope, got to get to 607 somehow.