How Come the Watchtower does not admit "We Don't Know Anything About Bible Prophecy" and come clean
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How Come the Watchtower does not admit "We Don't Know Anything About Bible Prophecy" and come clean?
by PokerPlayerPhil 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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OUTLAW
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FayeDunaway
Great post, clambake -
Finkelstein
Brothers and sisters would an organization that has taken on the actual name of god be a commercialized false prophet, like some common free wheeling American charlatans .?
Ok so we said Christ had returned and we said the world was going to end soon in Armageddon for over a century now and we promoted that in many of are publications we printed , that doesn't mean we're corrupt lying opportunists seeking power and money ?
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PokerPlayerPhil
Deep Insights you provided for all of us to ponder, so basically their like the Indian CEO running Satyam's (famous software fraud in India) who said when asked why he kept lying about all the financial reports, here's what his answer was. Do you think the Watchtower leaders feel the same way and use all the membership as some annuitiy for their retirement?
Simon, you have not comment on this, can you provide your insights because we really do enjoy how you speak your mind and say things many of us cant! I know we have many good posts here, is it possible we all are missing a bigger picture why they won't come clean? Is it like Satyam's CEO who was a fraud and would spend the next decade in prison?
Jan 07, 2009
Satyam: It was like riding a tiger, not knowing how to get off without being eaten
A great quote to cap a sad story for Satyam's Ramalinga Raju, who resigned as Chairman today.
Following the recent issues regarding Satyam’s financial irregularities, India’s IT-BPO services industry finds itself under increased financial scrutiny from Wall St analysts and corporate clients. However, while Satyam has a major challenge ahead to maintain its market position, and is a likely takeover target, we do not believe this fiasco will have longer-term ramifications for the Indian services sector, as long as Satyam’s creative accounting turns out to be an isolated incident and not a more pervasive problem across the sector.
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Vidiot
problemaddict 2 - "How come the Watchtower does not admit 'we don't know anything about Bible prophecy' and come clean?"
Because the WTS's entire reason for existing is, has, and always will be the interpretation of Biblical prophecy.
Take that away, and it wouldn't even be the WTS anymore. it would cease to exist.
x
And without the WTS, the leadership would have nothing. They would be nothing.
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Clambake
What I get a kick out of when you take a Jehovah Witness and an Evangelical Christian American and start comparing the bible with the end times prophecy, at least an Evangelical can somewhat twist world affairs to their theology with the Modern day state of Israel and Mog and Maygog and how the church and Israel are two different things and a union of Muslim nation forming to destroy Israel. I haven’t really jumped in the deep end of all this stuff it is at least somewhat plausible.
What do Jehovah Witness have ?? A stupid 1914 calculation that a five year old could debunk.
All religions will be banned soon by the United Nations and only the Jehovah Witnesses will resist ? It sounds like something out of a science fiction novel. There is no evidence of something like this happening. Western nations are becoming more secular……..so what. Like China, India , Africa and South American don’t count, do you know how many churches are planted in those regions each year. Do you have any idea how useless the U.N is ??
I have a feeling WTS theology will soon twist into something closer to Evangelical Christian American theology ( well, actually it is already happening ) because what with they are teaching, it is hard to believe the end of the system is so close.
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Vidiot
Clambake - "All religions will be banned soon by the United Nations and only the Jehovah Witnesses will resist ? It sounds like something out of a science fiction novel. There is no evidence of something like this happening...Do you have any idea how useless the UN is?"
As I've mentioned before, when Fred Franz was crafting the WTS's eschatology, there was a lot more cross-pollenization of ideas between apocalyptic groups and ultra-conservative conspiracy theorists (the John Birch Society, Hal Lindsay, etc.); it was inevitable that some of that ended up influencing Franz's speculative sequence of events.
The UN's charter was partially drafted by socialists (one step removed from "Godless" communists), McCarthyism was running rampant, the Cold War was heating up, and a lot of it seemed much more plausible, particularly if one was already primed to view Revelation as "prophetic" and playing out in (what was at the time) the present day.
(a side note; this is one of the reasons I suspect some JWs seem particularly susceptible to right-wing conspiracy theory, particularly the One World Government/New World order stuff)
Trouble is, the "real-world" scenarios so specifically outlined in it are now all but impossible in the present goepolitical climate... among other things, I suspect the fall of the Old Soviet Union some twenty-odd years ago really threw them for a loop; the "King of the North" has never been recast. And as you said, the UN is not a powerful entity at all; the Security Council can barely enforce resolutions to protect religious freedoms, let alone marshal a planet-wide campaign to snuff them out.
Franz never left any kind of protege, however, so the WTS is kinda stuck with an End-Times script which now contains nonexistent or powerless Bad Guys, a dystopian near-future that's practically the opposite of what now exists (at least in the Western World), and heroes so soft (JWs themselves), they probably couldn't prevail even if what the WTS teaches did come true.
x
Clambake - "I have a feeling WTS theology will soon twist into something closer to Evangelical Christian American theology (well, actually it is already happening)."
Yup; "rapture" in all but name only.
I actually noticed this prior to my fade a few years back; that JW eschatology wasn't all that different from, say, its Born-Again equivalent; it was just given more of a WT-centric spin.
x
Bit of a catch-22, actually...
...how do you present your religion as a different alternative if it's looking less and less alternative each and every day?
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Clambake
My goodness Vidiot
You are a really good writer.
My favorite new twist in WTS theology is the new understanding of Mog and Maygog and how it is now a coalition of nations from central Asia to North Africa are coming to attack Gods people in Jerusalem , which is symbolic for , shit I don't even know.
Its like they watch 700 club, 100 huntley street, jack van impe etc and steal half an idea and hope in 30 years from now they can steal the other half and no one will notice.
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PokerPlayerPhil
A large portion of outspoken Evangelicals don't rely on End Time Prophets like Hal Lindsay's collection (starting in 1969) "The Late Great Planet Earth" and Dr. Harold Camping's End Time predictions, all the prophets of the Rapture are remnants of a time past. I read nice articles by good writers who are not focused on grinding your teeth, preventing people from living a good life or the "doctrine of fear". These guys are brutal against Cults, they don't like people who mistreat others(Shunning is ineffective and demonic according to them) unless the person is someone who hurts little children or blows people up or extorts and extracts illicit gains via things like "child labor", "sex trade", "drug thugs" and "terrorist". The Watchtower can't even come forward with any statement against the killings, the maiming of Christians through Radical Islamic regions.
When was the last time you heard of a Watchtower defender going before the students at Oxford or Harvard to share their wisdom, their social morals to change people's greed or offer cups of water to peaceful protesters trying to change the abuse in their community?
The Watchtower has morphed in to a 700 Club, PTL or Jimmy Swaggart type Organization except they don't show pictures of the starving children or interview the missionaries working to change poverty, develop clean drinking water or solar stoves in Africa and Asia. The Watchtower besides the West-borough Baptist church causes more pain to members and society than good. Since nobody knows when the End will come, why don't they focus on helping humanity instead of creating more shell corporations to hide their money from the lawyers suing for poor-practices of managing pedophiles in the 2000 back to our childhood? I can't see any value the Watchtower is having us, their like fleas or ticks , their parasites using resources without putting anything back. Wasted money to fly Tony Morris to harass homosexuals, deplorable amounts of money are spent to send the jokers to share their intense personal dislikes to anyone stupid enough to obey them.
Catholics do lots for the World through charity, Fundamental Christians in certain churches are trying to make a change for the good, the Watchtower won't move until they see their approach is worthless. What's going to make the Watchtower get unstuck from decades of failed doctrines, worthless teachings and ruined lives and deaths from the Blood Doctrine, lots of people will have to stop attending and donations need to stop and then their will get New Light from their god telling them "We humbly apologize for being calloused men and want you to enjoy as much life, stop feeling guilt over issues that don't bother us(taking vacations with the intent of enjoyment instead of missionary vacations the GB does not do!) working extra to stay afloat and free thinking to question areas that won't kill off the Organization. The Mormons don't expel people for asking questions the Watchtower does, the Fundamentals will not label you "Apostate" for disagreeing with the church pastor!
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Vidiot
Clambake - "My goodness Vidiot, You are a really good writer."
Um, thanks :relaxed: ... maybe someday Hollywood will think so, too...:stuck_out_tongue:
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Clambake - "Its like they watch 700 club, 100 huntley street, jack van impe etc..."
I am already 100% convinced they do... and decided they want a piece of that sweet, sweet televangelist green...