by jam 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Cold steel: A question for you. I had a few studies with
the Mormons. I ask the two young men, if you are in battle
(Mormons serve in the military) and you are facing your
enemy, unknowing to you he also is a Mormon, you kill him.
How do you justify your actions before God?
I think we Mormons are responsible for lots of hate speech, we just called it “loving guidance from the Lord.” I received the “To Young Men Only” guide when I was in youth and it contained such “gems”....
Reading over the list of “gems” you itemized, I don’t have problems with any of them. I had a friend who once started what I thought was a friendly tussle. Within moments it became apparent that he considered it a type of foreplay and I reacted with appropriate force that ended our friendship. He knew I didn’t swing that way, and I experienced extreme revulsion by his advance. If homosexuals want to engage in their deviant behavior, that’s their business. I won’t dictate what they do in the privacy of their own homes and bedrooms. But I demand respect for my own predilections, and he knew my religious and social views. I don’t want dogs humping my leg and I don’t want homosexuals disrespecting my own sexuality. I’m quite capable of having friendships with homosexuals, but there are social limitations in both homosexual and heterosexual lifestyles. I respect the sexual predilections of lesbians and wouldn’t have thought of pushing myself on them. So it’s a matter of mutual respect.
Mormons will change any doctrine necessary to protect their holdings. Remember multiple wives? Now once again times have changed and they see the hand writing on the wall...and the Supreme court is ready to hear the case on the basis of protecting civil rights.... Like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons are just another corporation trying to sell a product.
You’re entitled to your views, of course. Everyone’s trying to sell a product and Mormons are the first to admit that we change. We claim modern and ongoing revelation from God as well as a restoration of biblical Christianity, and the divine authority to act in God’s name.
In both the Bible and the Book of Mormon, ancient prophets saw our day and prophesied that in the end times, people would excel in wickedness. Jesus said: “ But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be,” and then he added that people would be marrying and given in marriage. In our day, we can expect homosexual marriage to be a part of that prophecy, for Moses wrote of Noah’s day: “The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. So God looked upon the earth, and indeed it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.” (Gen. 6:11-12)
What does the Lord mean by “corrupt”? The dictionary defines “corrupt” as “Marked by immorality and perversion; depraved.Venal; dishonest....” Also, “To destroy or subvert the honesty or integrity of.To ruin morally; pervert.To taint; contaminate.To cause to become rotten; spoil.To change the original form of.”
This requires little comment. Suffice it to say that our society has become corrupt. That doesn’t mean that any man is God’s agent for exacting vengeance, or that we shouldn’t love or display compassion for anyone wrestling with homosexuality, pedophilia, bestiality or any other perversion. Certainly if it moves into violence or coercion we as a society need to intervene, but we’re not supposed to react with hatred and violence of our own.
LDS leaders have not changed their views on anything. We still are against homosexual marriage, but we stress love and compassion towards sinners, the same attitude that our Lord displayed. That doesn’t mean he approves of the sins, but he recognizes we all have problems, that we’re all sinners and that we’re working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. We’re in a state of probation and therefore we’re allotted time in which to work. That does not represent a change in attitude or doctrine.
If you are in battle (Mormons serve in the military) and you are facing your enemy, unknowing to you he also is a Mormon, you kill him. How do you justify your actions before God?
We don’t have to justify our actions in this regard to anyone. The Lord has stated that taking the lives of anyone (Mormon or not) is repugnant to him. Still, we are subjects of our respective governments and any taking of human life, unless done with personal relish, is upon the heads of state which start and pursue wars. In our theology, death is not an end, but a continuation. That said, I would not have participated in either the Korean War or the Vietnam War, even if drafted. Why? Because they were illegal and were not declared wars. So I would have gone to Canada. My dad, a Navy Captain, had special funds for my brother and me to go to Canada and wait out the war. Even so, in legal wars, the church has said that we are subjects to our governments and must abide by the law.
So, does this mean the Mormons will now be actively working to repeal the anti-gay-marriage statute that they flooded the voting booths to institute in California??
Or, if the law is pass (it,s legal for gays and lesbian to marry)
Will the Mormon leaders marry gays and lesbian in your church.
Remerber you said, obey the laws of the land, you can,t have it
both ways. I believe killing anyone goes aganist Gods laws, but yet
many Mormons have fought in wars. You decided those wars was illegal,
what wars or legal by your definition? Or you a independent Mormon
(that follow some of the rules) or are you a true Mormon with the magical
underwear. If you do wear the magical underwear, please explain, what the hell
kind of protection you recceive by wearing it? I,am serious, is it the
same as Angels watching over JW,s in the door to door work?
Cold Steel - having read your response the langauge you are using and the juxtaposition of ideas seems to suggest that you've accepted the Mormon view on sexuality (deviant!) Hopefully you'll consider that the rule you seem to promote (homosexuals must respect your space by not making a move on you) would mean that straight people could also not make advances (who knows when a straight person might make a move on a homosexual person and so not respect their sexual space!) You cannot advocate one rule for the privileged straight people and another for the minority homosexual or bisexual.
If you wish to be homophobic thats fine. What you must own is the cause of it and the consequences. The moment you start pretending that you can discriminate against someone and it is justified and loving you are wrong. Sexual gender preferences are not sins, mental disabilities or character failings. Any church that preaches that they are is a hate filled organisation - no matter what redeeming features they display elsewhere - because it takes that which is natural and turns it into a reason for discrimination (you cannot marry, you must live in secret etc.)
As a male you also may be unaware of the blatant anti woman discrimination in the church as well. Judgemental and heirarchical thinking begets further abuses. The Mormon church - and I still have great fondness for much of it - is riddled with status and privilege - those who can and those who can't - and it is a power play dressed up in a religious story. Please, please put aside that which you have learnt about homosexuality and examine why you think as you do.
Qcmbr: Amen
Good discussion about this issue from the underground in LDS world:
Thanks Qcmbr.
Mormons who are not in same-sex relationships can have "full
fellowship in the church"
JWs are no different in that respect.
This is from page 6 of the latest March 15th 2013 Watchtower (Study Edition)...
One brother who was raised in a Christian household wrote that for as long as he could remember, he struggled with homosexual tendencies. He said: “I always felt awkward. It seemed that I didn’t fit in anywhere.” By age 20, he had become a regular pioneer and was a ministerial servant in the congregation. Then he stumbled badly, was Scripturally disciplined, and received help from the elders. By praying, studying God’s Word, and focusing on helping others, he picked himself up and resumed his spiritual pace. Years later, he admits: “At times I still have those feelings, but I don’t let them overtake me. I have learned that Jehovah will not let you be tempted beyond what you can handle. So I believe that God thinks I can make it.” This brother concludes: “All the struggles I have endured will pay off in the new world. I want that! Until then, I will continue to fight.” He is determined to stay in the race.
Technically speaking (if not in practice) JWs are happy to worship alongside those with homosexual feelings. These ones just aren't allowed to "let their feelings overtake them", i.e. by being in a same-sex relationship.
Cedars
im just asking:who here is a current member? and do you believe? mormon member
