new thinking after reading Collosians

Honeybucket

I read the book of collosians and now Im really not sure whether the trinity concept is completely false. Maybe I need to read non-jw bible to make my decision. Even the NWT seemed to support the jesus was a manifestation of god to help mankind. I am reading the bible from back to front, so maybe Im missing something. Anyone else think this after they read collasians?

Christ Alone

Yup. The very chapter they use to disprove the trinity is the very chapter/book that gives much weight to the idea. Jesus created all things. Jehovah created all things. The spirit created all things. After col, read John again and see it talked about even stronger. Nothing that was created was created without Jesus. Nothing... That includes Jesus himself. He was not created.

Sulla

I think what you will find is that, even if one ultimately disagrees with the doctrine as it came to be defined, the person of Jesus is clearly much more nearly transcendent in the NT than the Jws would have you believe. That is, the centrality of the person of Jesus in NT writing is such that he required an entirely new religion. To listen to the JWs, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why the Christians had to break with the Jews.

Ding

The Greek word "prototokos" translated "firstborn" in Colossians 1:15 doesn't mean "first one created," as the WT would have us believe.

It means "preeminent."

This meaning is consistent with the context of the following that follow.

For example, verse 16 says that everything was created by and for Christ.

Verse 17 says that he existed before all things and holds all things together.

designs

Gnostic Christianity and their view of what Reality is seems to be what Paul is arguing against in Collosians. http://gnosticschristians.com

never been happier

Yes,i too have come to think the trinity is a definite possibility.To call jesus an angel is clearly disproved by hebrews so the wts is blaspheming in calling jesus an angel.Heb 1;6 "let all gods angels worship him",ask a witness who the angels worship and watch the cogs start to jam up when you point out heb1;6... jesus is begotten ie comes out of god like our own children come out of us ,they are part of us as jesus is part of god.We can create a table or a chair but we beget our children and god begat jesus but they created all other things."let US make man in OUR image" "here the man has become like one of US". Could god really trust an angel to become flesh and be sacrificed for all,given that we are in this mess because of the ambitions of angels, how many are reckoned to have rebelled? a third.How does sending an angel to be the sacrifice prove gods love." i'll show them how much i love them,michael go down there and be tortured and brutalised and murdered" no no no. Jesus is the way the truth and the life,the only means of salvation and therefore he cannot be an angel. John 1.... "the word was with god and the word was god" or the wts version "the word was with god and the word was a god" either way 2 gods are mentioned and if there is only 1 true god and jesus is also a god then he must be a false god but a witness will never say that,to him jesus is an angel so he cannot reconcile that jesus is god, which he has to be,otherwise the angels are worshipping a false god at heb 1. How did the witnesses ever come to believe the nonsense that they preach.I believed it for 16 of the 18 yrs i was one of them but i just can't see how i was duped so completely when nearly all their doctrines are false and easily exposed by praying for the spirit and reading just the bible. All christians must take the bread and wine,no matter where you think your destiny is, the memorial is simply a ceremony to reject the body and blood and is therefore a satanic event.You have the bread in your hands and pass it away, symbolically and physically a rejection of the christ- "this people honour me with their lips but their hearts are far removed"

tornapart

From the way I've read the NT without JW blinkers is that Jesus is begotten and not created. He is not an angel. He is to be worshipped as his Father is. He is equal to his Father, sitting at his right hand, everything has been given to him. He is to be prayed to in the same way his Father is. He is the mediator of all, not just a select number.

Kosonen

Hi Honeybucket and others,

Nice that you have begun to read the Bible, you will grow in knowledge if you continue. About your question about trinity. The trinity doctrine means that there is three persons in one God, and that they are completely equal in age, power, knowledge etc. (That's impossible and it contradicts many statements in the Bible and it contradicts logic. That's why christendom's priests do not get in to explain the contradictions. Instead they insist that you should believe it because it is a mystery that we can not understand.)

But the Father is allways older and wiser and more powerfull than the Son. Even though they are best friends. And where is the trinity's third person the Holy Spirit? In visions about God in the Bible you read about God the Father, and sometimes at His right hand is His son Jesus. But in these occasions you never read about a third person holy spirit standing there together with God and Jesus. Just continue to read the Bible and analize how God the Father Jehovah and the son of God Jesus Christ our lord and holy spirit are related, and you will come to a right conclusion.

I have long time wondered how is it so hard for the almost the entire Christendom to get to the truth about who is God? They know Jesus, but they don't know the Father, and that's why they mess Jesus and God the Father into one person. But was that not the same reason that the jews rejected Jesus, because they knew him, but they did not know the Father? That's why Jesus said that they did not have love for God.

So, begin with the first and most important commandment, then you can build you faith further.

Ding

Honeybucket,

I've sent you a PM.

Black Sheep

The trinity doctrine means that there is three persons in one God, and that they are completely equal in age, power, knowledge etc.

I am not aware of any mainstream religions that teach that. Do you know of any?

The Watchtower might try to give the impression that Trinitarians teach that so that they can make it sound confusing, but they seldom, if ever, touch on the Trinity as it is defined by the churches they want to bash.

new thinking after reading Collosians

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