FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again! (page 11)

cofty

ur fellow athiest

I'm not a member of any atheist clubs.

I could be forgiven for thinking that arguing with EP is your way of avoiding a discussion where the evidence was going against you.

punkofnice

Hmmmmmm. So what have I surmised thus far?

Faith exists but not necessarily god.

unstopableravens

no have i every avoided a discussion cofty? i dont care if you or anyone else disagrees with me,thats fine most here that are athiest are respaectful,but i will not put up with twisting words

cofty

OK so what about the pseudogenes and the questions I asked you about evidence from DNA?

I have posted it below in case you missed it....

Lets say we were looking at two essays that had been submitted by two university students. If they were very similar we might wonder if one had copied the other or if they had both copied the same source. Of course its also possible that they just studied the same sources and have a similar way of expressing themselves.

What though if we looked more carefully and noticed identical errors? The very same spelling mistakes in the very same places in the two texts. What if we found dozens of these and then we even found a much older essay on the internet that contained the very same mistakes?

What if you were on a jury and an expert witness explained why the DNA evidence proved conclusively that the accused was guilty but his defense lawyer said something like "oh well everybody's DNA is similar isn't it?" You would know the defense lawyer had no interest in the truth wouldn't you?

What if you were accused of begin the father of a child but you knew you had never met the mother. When the DNA proved you were innocent what would you think if the mother dismissed the genetic evidence in the same way you just did in your last post?

For example unlike almost all other mammals Homo sapiens are unable to manufacture their own supply of vitamin C.

The recipe for making vitamin C is in four parts with each step being carried out by a different gene. It turns out that we humans actually have all the machinery for the first three stages of the process but the fourth gene in the cascade has been knocked out of action long ago by the loss of a single letter in the gene known as GLO.

GLO is now a pseudo-gene, an ancient relic of something that retired from active service long ago. The other genes in our vitamin C factories go on working regardless, churning out their enzymes in vain.

Now here’s the interesting bit. As I said above, “almost” all mammals produce their own vitamin C; the other notable exceptions are all the primates. When their DNA is examined the reason turns out to be precisely the same as in humans. The exact same single letter of exactly the same gene has been knocked out as in the human genome.

Only evolution and common ancestry can reasonably explain these facts. At some time in the distant past all mammals had a fully working vitamin C factory. A common ancestor of all primates suffered a mutation, a loss of a single letter in the GLO gene rendering the whole process obsolete for all time.

There are many other similar examples.

jgnat

Hard to repeat.

Can't be that hard, people claim to be able to have a personal experience all the time. - EP

A repeatable experiment would be two people in side-by-side booths, who cannot see or hear each other. One hears a voice from God and writes down what they heard. The second does the same at the same time.

Repeatable.

Of course, people hear from God all the time, but they never hear the same thing. Wouldn't that argue that it was an internal experience rather than an external?

wallsofjericho

I do not beleive in God. My answer is, there is no god. The more I study the bible the more I see it for what it is, individual letters and writings each written for a specific purpose, then all compiled by men to accomplish a specific purpose. How many letters & writings were discarded at Nicea? Christianity could look completely if different voting had inserted or removed even a single book from the canon. The holes identified in the Christian bible by modern scholars have fundamentalist christians creating ridiculously complicated scenarios to salvage the appearance of divine inspiration when a historical reading of the text provides the most simple and rational explanation of any text. It only takes one generation to turn folklore into a belief system.

EntirelyPossible

Of course, people hear from God all the time, but they never hear the same thing. Wouldn't that argue that it was an internal experience rather than an external?

Possibly, or that they ARE hearing something external, it's just two different things talking to them.

unstopableravens

okay : thats not what i said i never said that everyone is close so it does prove anything, the point i was making is god creating animals and human is just as plausable as any theory you have,why couldnt good create some animals with natural vit c and some with out, so what does that prove, ithink because there questions like why would god do something and because we dont have the answer,you say well it must have evoloved, yet you never seen any physical proof of that as well , so what if the dna is close between humans and apes why could not the god who made us make them close with some things in commen.

EntirelyPossible

the point i was making is god creating animals and human is just as plausable as any theory you have,why couldnt good create some animals with natural vit c and some with out, so what does that prove

Not really. The genetic record show evidence of mutations similar to what Cofty described.

cofty

Unstop - you completely missed my point.

God didn't make us without the ability to make vitamin C

Humans have all of the machinery to make vitamin C and yet it is broken, completely useless. We know precisely which letter of code is faulty.

Primates have exactly the same fault. Why?

FINALLY! Can you prove God exists? If you can I won't ask again!

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