Friends of Bill W. W Must Stand for WTF? (page 7)

Cagefighter

Again Jeff T thanks for more false dilemmas.

AA doesn't necesarrily eliminate drunk driving deaths. Obviously those people driving drunk are not working the program are they? So AA has no to little bearing on the outcome. Eliminating cars or alcohol would reduce drunk driving deaths, that is logicial. No Cars or No Alcohol = No Drunk Driving.

I am not here to stand in anyone's way that wants to get help or even somebody that is getting helped by AA. Just don't tell me it isn't a cult. I could not say what I really believe and remain in AA without being hounded, harassed or shunned. Don't believe me, try it. Go in, get a sponsor, tell him half of that paragraph in the blue book is bad science and false. See what happens, that's what I did. My desire to not drink had not changed so why was I treated differently just because I could prove some statements an old drunk made in his personal manifesto were false? Answer: Because I wasn't playing nice and falling in line = CULT!

Now, as far as getting help. Sure there are some people that find the peer pressure of their AA cult helps them stay sober, so be it. It's their life and if they feel they are the better for it then OK. This is the argument my JW father uses on me when I peg him on the screwed up JW logic and theology. He will finally say, well if it wasn't for the JW's I would be divorced...in jail... a drunk... unemployed... a bad father.... whatever you wish to insert. And knowing my father, that might very well be true! Doesn't mean JW's are not a cult.

I would recommend reading as much modern literature written by actual doctors on the biological and psychological components of addiction. We know more today based on actual science than we ever did before. Then you might be able to see if you are willing to look honestly at yourself how you sabotage yourself over and over again with out even knowing it. Also, looking for other causes like: social environments, culture, anxiety, mental illness, etc.... is a big part of it.

Simply forcing me to admit I have a "allergic reaction" to alcohol is laughable and insincere in 2012. What are you going to tell me next that God left a few old dudes in Brooklyn in charge of saving his entire creation with their magazines and mind numbing lectures?

Good luck to anyone struggling. Just be honest with yourself and open to the answers no matter where they lead you. And there certainly is nothing wrong with simply abstaining from alcohol until you find out what is going on regardless of how long it takes to figure it out one way or the other. That is logicial. Do no more harm....

wha happened?

and u do the same

Band on the Run

There is no doubt that AA is a faith-based group. Inmates cannot be forced to attend. I've read several court decisions. A person can voluntarily choose to go. The statistics are very disappointing. If it helps, however, what is so bad a higher power. An article I read suggested that there very deep rifts in NYC between traditional God believers and non-believers. Neither one will attend the other's meeting.

Any group of support that helps people should be commended. AA rarely works. It is a fact. For those that it does help, why deprive them of AA?

wha happened?

they do have meetings without the God in it. Lots of people feel God shouldn't be shoved down their throat for recovery.

designs

Hell the AA and NA don't get along. Having been to both it is interesting to see who shows up, NAs are off the chart some nights.

still thinking

I am not here to stand in anyone's way that wants to get help or even somebody that is getting helped by AA. Just don't tell me it isn't a cult. I could not say what I really believe and remain in AA without being hounded, harassed or shunned. Don't believe me, try it. Go in, get a sponsor, tell him half of that paragraph in the blue book is bad science and false. See what happens, that's what I did. My desire to not drink had not changed so why was I treated differently just because I could prove some statements an old drunk made in his personal manifesto were false? Answer: Because I wasn't playing nice and falling in line = CULT!

Firstly...you chose your sponser...I gotta say. You must make bad choices when it comes to people if you chose someone that was so different to you. Normally, a sponser is chosen because you respect them as people, and their ideas. Or maybe you selected one before really checking them out. I did that with Alanon because I THOUGHT I had to have one. Turns out, I didn't. And my sponser was cool with that. I think she realized what I had done because she had done the same herself. What I ended up doing was just ringing different people for different reasons when I needed support. For me, no one sponser fit the bill. So I never had a sponser...and neither did my partner for that matter. Ironically, he did the same thing I did.

Everyone is different at AA and alanon. Some are very to the book, and some are more relaxed. It's a cross section of society and takes all sorts.

I suspect you were treated differently because you were at a group that didn't suit you. They are not experts. They are recovering alcoholics who share their experiences and what they have learnt and what worked for THEM and they are trying to support others that are going through the same things. Some people continue to behave like they are in addiction even without the drug or alcohol. Maybe your experience is a reflection of some of those people....maybe there is something to be learned in that also. I don't know. Everyone takes something different out of the experience. I'm sorry to hear yours was bad.

Cagefighter

i have been around over a dozen groups and probably hundreds of aa members for the last two decades. aa meetings are like kingdom halls the doors are open anyone can take my challenge. tell them you want to work the program, but then see what happens when you criktically access their claims and use outside sources. no one has to take my word for it. there is an aa meeting on every corner.

Anony Mous

What I meant that you can't leave AA is that once you recover, AA claims that you still have a problem and thus need to continue going to the AA meetings. AA meetings (according to their own scripture) is a lifetime commitment which if you quit, you will go back to your old ways. Yes, there is slightly more freedom to come and go but in most cases you will be socially pressured to go back.

Yes there are various branches of AA but it's roots are cult-like and most of it's teachings are too. There are plenty of other options besides AA in most places, just take a look around. It gives you a support network just like the JW's do but that doesn't mean I go back to the KH because even though the people seem nice on the surface what they teach is still shit.

And MADD is equally at fault for causing many more drunk deaths than necessary. By elevating the drinking age to 21 they criminalized and thus hid the practice while if they didn't criminalize it at all, youngsters can grow up with alcohol use being monitored and guided by adults as is the case in Europe and much of the rest of the world.

Cagefighter

To put a fine point on this discussion: I feel like obviously some people here are in AA and recovering. I don't look down on anyone for using AA. If I thought joining a cult would save my life, or keep me out of immediate danger, sure I would join. I just wouldn't lie to myself about what it is, a necessary and hopefully temporary evil. We have all lied to our selves once about being in a cult and that was enough.

Whatever works for you, keep doing it and you will get to where you need to be.

JeffT

that once you recover, AA claims that you still have a proble

That would be because you do. There is a genetic component to the disease that won't just go away. An alcoholic can no more stop being an alcoholic that a diabetic can just stop being a diabetic. Being in recovery is sort of like having your cancer go into remission.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa60.htm

Friends of Bill W. W Must Stand for WTF?

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