BEATING KIDS IN THE WASHROOM (page 5)

amccullough

I stand corrected. I was able to find some WT articles in the 80's that don't promote spanking, but say that it may be necessary. All of the articles did emphasize that the most important thing was to direct the child and give them guidance with balanced discipline. I do still see it as a universal and generational problem though. I think the people in this thread who have their special beating sticks, rods, etc, would beat their children regardless of their religion.

Farkel

:Farkel posted a number of WT articles condoning spanking, but they were all from the 50's, when spanking was a more commonly accepted form of punishment. I think you would be hard pressed to find references in the more politically correct modern day WT.

So, you're basically saying that Jehovah only directs his faithful and discreet slave to make changes when it is "politically correct" to do so.

What about the simple human trait (that requires no God to reveal it) that beating children is barbaric? Why couldn't those idiotic WT leaders even figure out something that is so obvious?

I'll tell you why: they are making-up-shit-as-they-go and change-shit-when-political-correctness-dictates it. Jehovah has nothing to do with it.

Farkel

amccullough

So, you're basically saying that Jehovah only directs his faithful and discreet slave to make changes when it is "politically correct" to do so.

My post said nothing about Jehovah directing the faithful and discreet slave. I was simply reemphasizing Waiting's post about "beating kids" being a more universal problem.

What about the simple human trait (that requires no God to reveal it) that beating children is barbaric? Why couldn't those idiotic WT leaders even figure out something that is so obvious?

The same reason why so many other humans throughout history have used physical discipline in raising children and not seen it as a barbaric trait.

waiting

I agree "beating children is barbaric." What constitutes a "beating" however, has remained undetermined. A slap? A push? A shove? A spanking with open-palmed hand? A closed fist to the mouth? I would think all of the above would be corporal punishment....but not all are beatings. And, as a society, we're finding better ways to deal with our anger/frustration/correction with our children. But that is now, in general.

This is an emotionally charged subject - and I think our background has quite a bit to do with it, along with the time period we actually were raised, or raised our children. During that time period, did society in general turn a deaf ear to spankings, beatings, etc? That would determine a lot of The Society's judgement calls - like most any other religion - they will change when forced to change.

When a first grader around 1932, my father had to hand out Valentines at school. He also had to go to the bathroom - and wasn't allowed to go. He messed his pants - probably 6 or 7 years old. His Nazarene mother (who also was a nurse's aid in The State Mental Institution) made him strip naked and stand in the backyard while she hosed him down. They lived on a corner lot near the school.....and a LOT of kids walked by and saw this inhumanity. Keep in mind, this was February in Indiana. Can be frigidly cold. He never forgot - and I was appalled when he told me about this when I was about 14. I couldn't believe ANY parent could be that cruel! LOL, thankfully, I had a very faulty memory.

Did she beat him? Actually, she never laid a hand on the boy that time.....just hosed him down like a dog. My guess is that he would much rather have taken a private beating/whipping/spanking. Perhaps that was her plan....humiliation like a dog.

How many parents have said to their kids "Well, my dad beat me, and I didn't die - so it can't be all that bad."

It is universal - children are abused in almost every society. I believe some societies are much better at handling parental anger - but children are still abused commonly....and always have been. Also, what one society sees as abuse, another society can see with complete difference. Court cases have been fought over this within the last 10 years.

I'm not excusing Jehovah's Witnesses and their policy for corporal punishment of children (and some women.) It is at least one to two generations behind times - as The Society usually is. But they definitely aren't unique, just o-so-common.

Perhaps Jehovah God, or lack thereof, has not much to do with this subject. Perhaps it's the reality of child abuse - and humans saying "God told me to do it." Like war, eh?

waiting

Aunty

Waiting -

I see your points in your comments and for the most part agree with what you're saying. I think most of the experiences here were regarding being disciplined at the meetings and the disruption everyone felt when it happened. Parents that would normally not spank/slap their kids are pressured into doing it at the KH so as not to "look bad". Also jw's put so much pressure on little children to sit for a long period of time and listen to lectures they don't really understand.

Many times parents will be commended for the "love of Jehovah" their well-behaved children show by their good behavior. When in fact, they were threatened with beatings. That's what's so upsetting. There is no understanding for little ones.

Also, for every parent in the world that beats their child, there are 10 more that don't. I'm certain the odds are less for jw's (at least it was the norm where I was raised).

Thirdson

All my siblings and I were raised in the "lie" (I call it what it really is) but none of us were beaten at the Kingdom Hall and we were hardly ever spanked as kids and even then it was a open hand on the backside. I guess we were lucky. Some were not as fortunate and for them it was a regular beating at the Kingdom Hall.

In the 1960s we attended a hall in Birmingham, England that was long and narrow. One family nearly always sat near the front and the son was nearly always beaten. He be taken out by his father. As his dad carried him down the aisle you'd hear, "no daddy!, no daddy!, no daddy!" fading, followed at the end by a loud slap and the wail of the kid.

Sadly, that wasn't the only mistreatment. I found out about this kid's feelings about his JW lifestyle from my first wife who attended the same school as him. He never got baptized and moved away from home as soon as he could. He lives happily in Vancouver now, and I managed to contact him recently after more than 15 years.

Thirdson

Farkel

For the record, neither of my JW parents beat me. But I saw a lot of kids pick up by only one arm and dragged out of the Kingdom Halls with their feet above the ground, taken outside and slapped, punched and kicked. I saw some of those same kids get slapped and slapped for crying until they would stop crying. No one raised a voice against such conduct. I also saw kids whacked on the head with wooden spoons, pinched and dragged by their hair at Kingdom Halls.

Whether everyone else did it or not, doesn't excuse it. Especially when a religion claims to speak directly for God and then "God" changes his mind when such outrageous conduct is no longer accepted by decent humans in the rest of society.

Farkel

Billygoat

This thread breaks my heart to a million pieces. I work so hard to calm my heart and be the good little girl and not say anything bad about anyone, but tonight I can't keep quiet.

Perhaps that was her plan....humiliation like a dog.

Humiliation in that form is sickening. And reminds me of countless things my father did to humiliate me growing up. For as far back as I could remember, my father "spanked" (more like beat or whipped) me totally naked. He always made me strip down to absolutely nothing and give me dozens of hits with a leather belt. It didn't matter if I was on my period or not. I can't tell you how many times I had bloody welts on me from my calves up to the middle of my back. He did this until I turned 16. I remember one time putting up a fight and telling him if he ever did it again I would kill him. He beat me some more. It surprises me to no end that I didn't kill him at some point - I had (and still have) so much anger towards that piece of shit. "Honor your parents"??? Sometimes that is one bible commentary I just cannot agree with. For whatever reason he stopped around the time I was 16.

Dad, I hope you lurk on this site because I still think you're a son of a bitch. One day you'll get back more than you could ever dream of dishing out to me or the boys. Mom, you're no better for keeping quiet.

I know this isn't necessarily healthy, but I take satisfaction in the belief that one day God will dish out to my Dad 10 times what he's done to my family. No vengeful act on my part would ever amount to what God will do to him.

Andi - My apologies to everyone else...in a very bitter mood tonight.

TweetieBird

This subject really gets me going. I remember one year at the Jacksonville assembly, a sister was beating her 2 year old son in the bathroom and then told him not to cry. Everytime he started crying she beat him some more. It upset me so bad that I left the bathroom crying.

I've said this in other posts, but I'll say it again. Silentlambs has raised the awareness to the sexual abuse that takes place in the organization, but the the physical abuse, IMHO, is even more abundant.

TweetieBird

Billygoat,
My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine a father doing that to their child. Thank God I had semi-normal parents. I got spankings, but nothing outrageous. I'm glad you survived and are with us to share your horrible story.

Even though the society does not advocate beatings in writing, as was mentioned before it does come to the witnesses orally from the CO, DO, assemblies, and talks at the hall. Maybe that too will change someday. It's not as bad as it was 10 or more years ago, but it still goes on. And I'm sure that if not done at the KH, it is definitely a problem at home, behind closed doors.

BEATING KIDS IN THE WASHROOM

Share this