anony :perhaps for some ,job when going through trails and horrible ones thought it was god, he did not know all the details, so when i go through hard times i want to learn from what he went through. but each person reacts different. at the end of the day most ppl do not want to die,and i think this alone speaks volumes,
An interesting article on scientific explanations of near-death / out-of-body experiences
by cedars 95 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Christ Alone
Personally, I haven't had enough "in-body" experiences to satisfy me.
-
caliber
We can EXPERIENCE it and still not be able to DEMONSTRATE it. Such is with God and the Spiritual Realm.
We must remember that there are many things in the natural world that exist beyond the range of our five physical senses. For example, we cannot
see infra-red light or x-rays, or hear sounds above or below certain frequencies. Nevertheless, x-rays and high and low frequency sound vibrations do
exist. In the same way, even though we cannot perceive a spiritual world through our physical senses, it exists all around us.
Think of Albert Einstein's celebrated remark that his work was spiritual, involving the discovery of where matter ends and spirit begins.
-
metatron
Can't get my copy/paste to work.
Google 'playing chess with the dead' (Korchnoi). I believe Russell Targ has some experience with this, too.
Also, 'cross correspondence' using mediums.
metatron
-
cofty
Caliber before you can compare spirit to x-rays you will need to define what you mean by spirt.
What exactly is this stuff you speak of?
I don't mean, waht does it do? I mean what is spirit?
-
james_woods
I especially liked the story of the guy who tried to "weigh the soul" - he would bribe hospital or nursing home officials to let him put a soon-to-die patient on a sensitive scales and then reweigh them at the moment of death.
Supposedly, the soul could be weighed in this manner - thus "proving" that it existed.
Completely barking at the moon mad.
Of course, the data was meaningless.
-
rip van winkle
Completely barking at the moon mad.
James, I wonder if he lived in a land where there was a Time space gravity cat? Or komodo dragons? Or naughty monkeys?
Like a land of Wibble?
-
EntirelyPossible
This all serves as a perfect example of just how limited the human perspective on the universe truly is. It shows that actual reality, the one where an immaterial realm exists, is beyond our intellectual grasp.
This simply shows that untestable anecdotal experiences in an altered mental state are not good guides to reality.
-
james_woods
James, I wonder if he lived in a land where there was a Time space gravity cat? Or komodo dragons? Or naughty monkeys?
Like a land of Wibble?
Paris France, as I recall Rip van Winkle.
Wibble would have channelled this nonsense into something productive, instead of getting him arrested for interference with dead bodies.
-
sabastious
This simply shows that untestable anecdotal experiences in an altered mental state are not good guides to reality.
Yes, on "paper" these types of tests don't stand up to other models which produce better more lasting results. However, NDE's are a specific case and serve as the exception to the rule, if you will. Dr Sacks is a perfect example of what I call Personalized Science, or better described as Spirituality.
Now, forget about any of the specifics of Dr Sack's story and use the dragon necklace example I previously stated which was wholly ignored. The person who experienced the NDE has an actual valid test they can perform. They can seek out the McDonalds that was in the "dream state" and if they find the cashier with the dragon necklace, they have PROOF POSITIVE evidence that their mind extrapolated real information around them without being physically present to it.
Now, the person KNOWS that what they experienced was BEYOND illusion or imagination as they have proof. However, this doesn't prove the existence of a spirit realm, but it does provide evidence towards that understanding of existence. Like finding an organic sample in the forest of an unknown creature. The evidence suggests a creature, but the specifics are sketchy. However, drawing a conclusion that there is no creature at all would be unscientific because that's ignoring evidence, it's essentially bias.
The great Thomas Paine had some brilliant insight on the subject of personal revelation. He said that any "revealed religion" doesn't actually have the right to impose their revelations on people who didn't experience it. He didn't question the validity of the alleged revelations of religion, he challenged the imposition of them and he was spot on in doing so.
So, basically what people like Dr Sacks experienced was PERSONAL revelation. Therefore anyone being told about the personal revelation will not be able to validate, they will have to use their God-given power of faith. Skepticism will always be logically available to people who are being informed of personal revelation. This creates the choice: to believe or not. What we choose to believe in is also personal and it's what God created us to accomplish. To freely put belief in something real which is outside of our understanding.
People simply need to see something for themselves rather than have a stranger, no matter how elevated, tell them it is so.
Yes, and such is one of the inherent problems that faces the whole of humanity. Jesus was reported saying to "be like children" when before God and that's because they are so trusting and faithful. A child will just take things at face value such as modern technology. Thousands of years ago there was no television or radio, but yet the children who grew up in times with those technologies just accepted them into their lives. Along with everyone children should be distrustful of MAN, not God. The reality is that everything laid out before us by God should be freely digested without question. However, as creations with free will we'll always have that tinge of doubt which we can freely choose to nourish or challenge. Faith is and always will be a staple of human society.
-Sab