by 00DAD 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Double 0 DAD,
Bro, sorry to hear that things are the way they are for you at the moment. The feeling of being hemmed in just plain SUCKS especially when loved ones are involved. I'm sorry I can't offer any words of advice. Just know that we are all here for you, and feel your pain. Feel free to vent anytime. My PM is always open and ready.
Hang in there mate.
Winston
Thanks again everyone for your kind, comforting words of support and encouragement. I really appreciate it!
tornapart - In particular, your words are very comforting. I can always count on you for a sympathetic ear.
88JM - Thanks, I wish my kids could see how much I love them. That's the problem with being shunned, it's easy for the shunners to believe the lies the are told because the shunning process prevents them from seeing any evidence to the contrary. This just underlines how essentially evil the practice is.
mouthy - Thank you Grace. Don't worry, I don't show my anger to my children. In fact, I can't. They have completely shut me out. I was having some dialogue with the youngest but that ended with the April 15th WT study article that once again reminded all loyal dubbies to shun their family members. That week he blocked my cell phone. I can neither call or text.
I appreciated your prayer for me. It made me cry. I still try to pray but mostly I feel like it's a pointless exercise in self-deception and futility.
wha happened? - It's so clear to me now what a cult this religion is. How did I not see that before? Oh, well. We've had this conversation several times my friend! We wanted it to be true so we ignored the obvious red-flags. Live and learn. I so wish I could just put this experience in my rear-view mirror and move on, but I can't because of my children.
Your comments about telling strangers about this is so right on. I've had opportunity of late to explain to some of my workmates and biz associates why I don't see my kids. It's funny, I used to feel guilty about it because that's how the WT trains us to feel when we leave. But the comments from anyone not attached to the WT are always universally the same: That's one messed up religion!
erbie - Agreed, it should be criminal. But sadly it is not!
flipper - As always, your love and support are greatly appreciated. I'm glad you're working on the letter to your daughter. Let me know how it goes.
I'm off this week so if you want to talk we could. Mornings are best.
wasblind - unfortunately my kids are both adults, although very young ones. Even when there was a Court ordered visitation agreement my ex completely ignored it. During that time, my son and I worked with a counselor that specialized in estrangement and alienation issues. This was also by court order. My son and ex-wife lied to the counselor to get the sessions ended early.
When that happened I talked to the counselor about them failing to keep to the visitation schedule. His advice was that if I forced it, I may win the battle, but I'd do more harm than good and probably just push my son(s) farther away. Mr. Flipper is exactly right on that point.
It's so frustrating. No matter what you do, you're screwed. The WTBTS has had 100 years to develop these policies and practices. I'm completely new at this. They also (I now know) are completely dishonest and ruthless. I have always tried to be honest and good. That puts me at an obvious disadvantage. It's like a game of chess where I'm a novice going up against a Grand Master in a game that's mid-way through and I've already lost all my power pieces.
.... to be continued ...
.... continued ....
AGuest - Thanks for taking the time to write a thoughtful and well-intentioned comment. However, I don't think asking the elder " how they can call themselves shepherds of God's sheep... while profaning HIS 'fast' " would serve my best interests at this point.
It's really not about doctrine. That's all window dressing. It's about control and obedience.
Let's review: It's a cult!
wha happened? - I'm hoping my genetic contribution to my kids kicks in too, and soon!
At the suggestion of Steven Hassan and several JWN members, I've been able to enlist the aid of some non-JW family members to maintain contact. It seems to be working a bit with one of my sons, not so much with the other. I'm optimistic, but still frustrated.
jgnat - I hope you're right. If you are then I've only got a little over a year to go. But I know that many here have waited much longer with no success.
whathappened - I keep hoping that my kids natural love for me would motivate them to seek me out, but so far it hasn't happened. Once, in a conversation with my therapist, he asked me what I had expected from my kids in my situation. (He's very familiar with JW shunning policy.) I said I thought my kids love for me would be stronger than the rules of this religion. I was wrong.
And it's so damn frustrating because I taught them these stupid rules! Once, I did get to make a point that I hope will make a difference to my youngest. When he asked me if I still believed I gave him this to think about:
Imagine yourself in the future. You're a father. You've taught your son something and later you realize you were wrong about it. What would you do? Allow your son to continue to believe something that you now know is not true, or would you tell him you were wrong and now know better?
He was quiet for a long time and never verbally responded. Hopefully it'll get him thinking!
I'm glad you shared your story here. I'm sorry about the trouble this cult has caused in your family. But it is heart-warming to know that you've at least found a way to make sure your grandson knows you and knows you love him. Well done!
wasblind - Thanks for the love! Here's some of the same back at you:
ABibleStudent - I haven't read Hassan's latest, but I have thoroughly read the first two. In fact I studied better than I ever studied a WT. They got the multiple highlighter treatment all the way around!
I understand your questions and concerns. They're good ones. I've considered all my options and have decided to try this. I don't know how it'll turn out, but at least I'm doing something. I can't do nothing, it's just not in me!
As for taking the activist route, I'm not interested in that. I don't want to try to change or reform the religion. I just don't care. If the GB wants to continue to believe their delusional little lies, that's fine by me. I simply want to get on with my life and make up for lost time. There were so many things I wanted to do but couldn't when I was in; I've got a good amount of life left and I intend to live it to the fullest extent possible.
For me, it's all about my kids. I taught them this and now I owe it to them to try and make it right. Ultimately, the must decide for themselves how to live, but it should be with complete information, not with the highly filtered, biased lies of the WTBTS.
BTW, I do send them letters, pictures and postcards from time to time to let them know I'm thinking of them, but I'm busy living too. "Weather is beautiful, wish you were here!"
Honeybucket - Yes, apparently JWs are not as "unified" as the WTBTS would have you believe. Unfortunately, my mileage is not the same as the woman you mentioned.
WinstonSmith - Thank you so much for the offer to vent. I'm sure I'll be taking you up on it. I am always very encouraged by the experiences of others on JWN that are trying to navigate our way out of this nightmare of a religion. Your comments and posts are helpful to me, sometimes if only as a mirror.
I know you're going through it too. The fact that we can come together for support and advice is amazing.
I said it before, but it bears repeating: I get more love and understanding from all the "evil apostates" here on JWN than I ever got from the self-righteous JWs that loudly go around telling everyone they're the only True Christians on Earth.
- - - - - - - - - -
Again, thank you all for your comments, suggestions, love and support. You're the best!
00DAD
I don't think asking the elder "how they can call themselves shepherds of God's sheep... while profaning HIS 'fast'"
I understand, dear 00DAD (again, peace to you!), but don't be so sure. Sure, you might not be able to ask them engroupe... or present it exactly the way I did... but just as we have former elders here who felt regret over their part with "her", who's to say none of those you're dealing with don't/won't? Even so, keep what I shared in YOUR mind; you may one day come to use it, even if you hadn't prepared to do so.
Again, peace to you... truly... and strength!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest, I honestly don't think most elders would even know what God's "fast" is.
But I'll keep the point in mind. Thanks,
00DAD
I wish I could get my family members out. My heart goes out to you 00DAD.
I think help form non JW relatives are a great idea. It's one thing for a dub to act out his shunning policy in front of other dubs. No explanation necessary. Try it in front of non JW relatives. Sure sounds crazy verbalizing the policy to someone who isn't "in". Or using crazy simple illustrations on the part of the WT to "help" people understand their non biblical policies
For whats its worth, 00D, I feel your pain here.
I know your story only from JWN, and you dont need to answer this, but the more I think about your situation I guess it comes to your relationship with your kids before all this stuff happened. Was that good- do you have happy memories- is there a way you could meet with them- get them to meet with you and try to recall a few happy moments you shared that show how close you were or how much you love them. Is there a way to reconnect with the a good memory of the past.
You know they will conflate your leaving the WT with loving them, and twist it so that in their minds YOU left THEM. Of course it isnt true, can you reassure them of your love regardless of all else.
My way has been to make an all out effort, give it all Ive got, and if it fails, let it be. And then I know I have tried.
I can imagine how you feel, since my pain is in the opposite generational direction.
Oodad - my heart hurts for you. I'm sure things will change with time, especially once your children become parents themselves, but I know that doesn't make you feel any better right now.
Just a thought. A first priority should be YOU. Keep yourself strong and healthy. Build networks of support and activities that you enjoy. You need to be completely whole and happy, so that you can be the best father you can be for your children when they finally realize they want a relationship.
cobaltcupcake - Thanks, I appreciate the kind words. I hope you can reach your family too! This religion is messed up!!!
wha happened? - My youngest does have some contact with a few of my non-JW family members. He's a little hot-and-cold about it, but at least it's some connection to family outside of the cult. According to Steven Hassan and confirmed by many here, it helps ones leave if they feel they have someone to be with and somewhere to go. They aren't isolated. This is actually why the WTBTS tries to get JWs to minimize contact with non-JW members.
In my experience, JWs get obviously embarrassed about shunning when non-JWs are around. Deep down, I think most, except the most hard-core JWs, know that shunning is wrong.
perfect1 - Good questions with interesting answers. I felt my relationship with my kids was pretty good before. It was certainly way better than the one I had with my father. I have many, many fond memories of good times. Of course it wasn't perfect, no family is, but it was good, at least I thought it was.
Interestingly, after I left, my youngest told me that he had no good memories of our time together! I was shocked. I couldn't believe it! I reminded him of many things we did that I know he liked. (I have pictures to prove it!) When I did, he was kind of silent, didn't really respond.
I couldn't understand it until I read Steven Hassan's second book. In it he describes how manipulative cults will do things to get cult members to not remember good things outside of/before the cult. Since reading this, I see that in many current WT publications there are frequent statements that manipulate the minds of the unsuspecting creating false memories and coloring their perception of things to fit only a WT approved world-view. It's actually quite bizarre.
You're also correct in your assessment that my leaving "The Truth" is the same as me leaving them. That is clearly NOT true, but that is their carefully manipulated perception of things. It's frustrating and maddening. I know they think I abandoned them, but in reality it is they that have abandoned me. I live very close to them and have made sure that their financial and material needs were met up until the time they reached the age of majority. But they just don't see it that way. I know their mother constantly says negative things about me and they get no Reality Checking by interacting with me. Another reason the WTBTS doesn't want cult members to associate with disfellowshipped ones, the JWs would see through the WT lies and illusions!
00DAD
