by EdenOne 110 Replies latest jw friends
cofty, thank you for the tip. I'll look into that.
Pterist, I'll have a look at that text and see if I can come up with an answer for you. Btw, I've read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" and found it a brilliant piece of research. If I had any shred of trust in 1914 as a "reliable" date, that book shattered it all. Yep, in case you were curious, I don't believe in 1914.
Eden
Pterist, you mentioned Jeremiah 25:29?
NWT - "For, look! it is upon the city upon which my name is called that I am starting off in bringing calamity,and should YOU yourselves in any way go free of punishment?”’ “‘Y OU will not go free of punishment, for there is a sword that I am calling against all the inhabitants of the earth,’ is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.
NIV - "See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword upon all who live on the earth, declares the LORD Almighty.'"
NASB - "For behold, I am beginning to work calamity in this city which is called by My name, and shall you be completely free from punishment? You will not be free from punishment; for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth," declares the LORD of hosts.'
ISV - Look, I'm beginning to bring disaster on the city that is called by my name, and do you actually think you will avoid punishment? You won't avoid punishment because I'm summoning the sword against all those who live in the land," declares the LORD of the Heavenly Armies.'"
AKJV - For, see, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth, said the LORD of hosts. D-R - For behold I begin to bring evil on the city wherein my name is called upon: and shall you be as innocent and escape free? you shall not escape free: for I will call for the sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the Lord of hosts. WEB - For, behold, I begin to work evil at the city which is called by my name; and should you be utterly unpunished? You shall not be unpunished; for I will call for a sword on all the inhabitants of the earth, says Yahweh of Armies. Can you please enlighten me how the WTS uses this passage as proof that the '70 years' have begun...? I remember reading some discussion if this sword over the inhabitants of the land applies to just the Jews or also the surrounding nations and how that would change the dates ...but can you explain? I'm a bit at loss here. Eden
Welcome x
Hi Eden, I'm amazed at how you can be closely associated with an organisation you say you have no intention of furthering the top executives interests. I realise there are many sincere ones blindly following, but they are following the GB. The mental anguish for me was too great to bear once the penny fully dropped for me.
Happy@last,
If I were involved as an Elder, it might be a terrible time for me nowadays (I was in the past and resigned). In that sense, not being involved at that level is a sort of "ignorance is bliss" status for me. At the same time, I've been many times urged to seek reinstatement as an Elder and I've carefully avoided it, because nowadays I don't want to be put in a position where I must teach others what i know for a fact that is an error. On the other hand, honestly, for the time being, I find it in my best spiritual interest to be part of the congregation than to be out of the congregation. Time will tell how things will evolve.
Eden
Welcome, Eden! Nice to have a different perspective on the site.
I can't help but wondering something, however. You seem to be happy to stay in the organization while promoting your dissenting views against it. I am sure that you are very much aware that if the elders found that you personally were responsible for the "Christian Fraternity of Jehovah's People" website, that you would most likely be disfellowshiped for it.
How would you react if they were to disfellowship you for having these views (and promoting them online)? This is the very reason Carl Olof Jonson was disfellowshiped. All of a sudden this Fraternity of "jehovahs" people would be dissolved and you would be cast out. As much as you may think these people your friends, many would turn on you in a second if you were df'd.
I guess I always wonder how people justify it all. Recognizing that the WT is a false organization, yet staying. Is it a desire to somehow "reform" the organization? Is it a desire to be a "mole"? If you believe it's God's organization gone corrupt, why must you stay in?
I too looked over your site and saw your peculiar views. And like Cofty, it seems like there is very little that is different from the Watchtower. Could you answer this: Do you believe that God has an organization that he is using exclusively on earth? Are there "saved" people in other religions? Is being a part of the Watchtower an essential to getting saved? Is it essential for a person to be "born again" in order to be saved? Would not all Christians, then, need to partake of the memorial emblems?
I'm just curious. We usually either get hardcore jws here, doubting jws, or all the way OUT jws. It's interesting to get a current jw that disagrees with the WT, yet has held on to so many of its peculiar teachings.
Regardless, welcome!
*edit - I see that you are almost up to your posting limit. There is a limit of 10 posts per day for the first few days. Then the limit goes up to 100. Just wanted you to be aware of that.
Hello Christ Alone.
In the "Basic Beliefs" of my site you surely didn't miss that part about "true religion". And there you find that to me, christianity - the teachings of Jesus Christ - is the true religion. The Jehovah's Witnesses are one among many religious groups that make an effort to stay close to Jesus' teachings. The implication of this is: As long as you practice christianism, you are practicing the true religion. HOWEVER - this is important - it is not completely indifferent what sort of christian fellowship / organization you associate with, because, as shown in Matthew 7.21-23, it takes more than aknowleging Jesus as our Lord and Savior to get his approval. But how relevant is that association it will depend on how it will impact on your personal relationship with Jehovah.
You may also want to have a look at the "Our Heritage" section on the "Mission Statement" page.
As for the website, it's a calculated risk. One thing I can say to you: No one can disfellowship me from being a christian and a worshipper of Jehovah God, except themselves. Perhaps a man can throw me out of the congregation, like Diotrephes usually did (3 John 9, 10) But even then, i would still define myself as a Jehovah's Witness. In the sense that, every worshipper of the true God must also bear witness in his favor (Isaiah 43:10)
Also, note that believing that God intended that Earth was forever inhabited by perfect humans isn't the same as saying that God wants that every individual (minus 144.000) to live forever on Earth. There IS a difference, one that I will elaborate further sometime, because the implications of it are enormous.
Edit: Thanks for the heads up. I understand that for the next 22 hours I will have to keep my mouth shut :P
Edit 2 (sorry to be extending this ad eternum): I don't know if the 144.000 is a literal number or not. It surely is symbolic. But I don't know the answer to that. I lean on towards being non-literal. But there are good arguments against and for it. As for the statement "I follow the GB" (as a quote) have you seen me writing that? As for "spamming for a competing site" ... i didn't know there was a competition and that we would be mutually exclusive. Are we?
Eden
Re-marking this.
Yes, tell us why you have decided to stay? That baffles me.
Interesting. I'd like to pick your brain a bit. It's a bummer you are out of posts for the day...
Could you go a bit further with the explanation of salvation? What exactly must we do to be saved, if repenting and believing Jesus is Lord and accepting His rule over our life is not enough? As you said, Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of those that are calling Jesus "Lord" and claimed to perform works in his name. I'm not sure that those same people are spoken of as having gone directly to Jesus in repentance, however. But what more beyond repentance of sin and acceptance of Jesus as Lord is required for our salvation? Could I have gone to Jesus directly in repentance and asked for forgiveness, accepted Him as Lord over my life, yet associate with Catholics? Would that association disqualify me from being saved?
It seems that the statement is a bit vague in regards to salvation. It's clear that you believe WHO we associate with matters. But what teachings must we stay away from? What groups teach the teachings that would disqualify us from being saved, even if we have repented of our sins and sought Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior? Is our salvation based on on grace alone, but on some kind of works where we earn enough favor to be acceptable to God?
Are Jehovah's Witnesses taught to do what Jesus asked at John 5:39,40? Are they allowed to follow the command from John 3:3 and partake of the memorial emblems as is also commanded by Jesus? Or are they instructed NOT to be born again and NOT to partake? Are not all Christians to be "anointed" or born of God, as stated in 1John 5:1? Or is anointing only for 144,000 members? Is the Faithful and Discreet slave really only the Governing Body in their teaching roles? Or are all Christians to be Fatihful and Discreet?
I know that's a lot of questions to answer. But they are the main ones that sprung to mind while reading your statement of beliefs.
