by EdenOne 110 Replies latest jw friends
Welcome Eden,
At the risk of stating the obvious, you cannot be one of Jehovah's Witnesses and disagree with the Governing Body.
It's not about doctrine, it's about authority (theirs) and submission (yours).
The GB is not interested in your Biblical Interpretations and frankly most of the people here are not either.
If you want to start a new religion, this is not a very good place to look for recruits.
00DAD
James Woods, this is going on for me for about one year now. Going out on the field service is right now a bit strange. I do wish to share with others, I love to teach the Bible, but I hesitate in making a disciple out of someone to become a member of the WTS. In that regards I'm a bit divided inside. In any case, I take on the notion that preaching not only saves others, also saves myself, so I take more on that aspect.
You are still going out in field service for the JWs, but you have also created a website which differs from their doctrine? For example:
cofty, out of curiosity, did you read the article section that I mentioned ? Because if you did, I find it hard to believe that you think I'm "very much influenced by the Watchtower" in this particular (but crucial) thing of understanding what is the Kingdom. Because the Kingdom being a heavenly government is only one out of the seven things that the Kingdom is.
I think you are in a very strange place religiously speaking. It is my opinion that you should figure out what you really believe before you continue to contact people in JW field service - or try to teach people things on the internet.
Realistically speaking - it is really in YOUR hands. Not God's hands - not any more than any other human's choice of religion. God does not pick peoples religion for them. We all have an individual choice. I find it hypocritical to stay in a religion with which I disagree for social, family, or other reasons.
Vidqun,
I believe the "time of the end" refers to the end of the tribulation caused to Jehovah's people by the two conflicting kings, in particular the King of the North.
Since Antiochus VII Sidetes was the last seleucian "King of the North" to trouble the Covenant people, that was "the end" - not the end of the system of things, but simply the "appointed time of the end" for that tribulation. Therefore, there's no chronological jump whatsoever.
OODAD.
It's not the Governing Body that defines me as a Jehovah's Witness - It's the Scriptures. And "submission" doesn't mean lack of a thinking brain. Thankfully God wishes the submission of his earthly children but at the same time gives them a thinking brain. Now, there's a disposition that the GB should ponder about. It's not my business if they take interest in my Biblical research or not. As for starting a new religion, and this being a place to "recruit" ... neither I'm thinking about starting a "new religion" nor am I "recruiting" followers. My site is an attempt to create a community. You, as everyone else, is welcome to take a look. If you personally decide you don't want to have anything to do with it, you have exercised your right to free will. Nothing wrong with that, is it?
Eden
James Woods,
Frankly speaking, I would rather see a profound reform of the WTS than to leave. In any case, I think that some kind of reform is happenning right now - in good Watchtower style, under pretext of some "new light". Which is sad, because I would rather see the GB aknowlege their mistakes, repent before God and their brethren and THEN tell people that a reform will follow. Alas, that is unlikely to happen. In any case, I don't feel personally bound by any vow that will keep me from study the Bible and do my own research. Yes, it's some strange place to be, right now, religiously speaking. But that won't stop me from going in the field service or sharing my Bible studies with others on the internet. Why not? Because I'm also learning with the replies and reactions of others. I don't claim to have received my "interpretations" from a supernatural entity, not do I claim to have any special enlightenment, so yes, chances are that I might be wrong here and there. Thankfully I don't claim to be a prophet.
As for uderstanding what is the Kingdom, I don't disagree with the WTS - I only think that their understanding is incomplete. The kingdom is a far bigger reallity than just a heavenly administration.
Eden
As for starting a new religion, and this being a place to "recruit" ... neither I'm thinking about starting a "new religion" nor am I "recruiting" followers. My site is an attempt to create a community. You, as everyone else, is welcome to take a look. If you personally decide you don't want to have anything to do with it, you have exercised your right to free will. Nothing wrong with that, is it?
You contradict yourself. The semantic difference in "recruiting followers" and "creating a community" is meaningless, religiously speaking.
What I see you are doing is hanging onto the JW world for support while simultaneously trying to create and promote your own religion.
It is (again) my opinion that you should figure out exactly WHAT your new personal religion is BEFORE you try to promote it to others.
This site has historically proven to be very difficult ground for people who want to preach their personally derived belief systems. We are almost all ex-JWs and are quite vaccinated against religious whimsy or nonsense.
Eden: It's not the Governing Body that defines me as a Jehovah's Witness
True, but they do define what a Jehovah's Witness is or is not. They own the trademark, literally.
If you disagree with them you are an apostate, particularly if you make known contrary teachings.
Understand that I have no problem with you being an apostate from the religion officially known as "Jehovah's Witnesses." We're all apostates here. Jesus was an apostate from the religion of his birth.
But you seem to be under the illusion that you can identify yourself a "Jehovah's Witness" yet disagree with the leadership of the religion. This is not possible. Notice this from the elders' manual, Shepherd the Flock of God, pp. 65-66:
Apostasy: Apostasy is a standing away true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment. It includes the following:
The fact that you have a website that has " teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses" means you are an apostate. By promoting that website here you are definitely " spreading" those "teachings."
Dude, you're an apostate. Acknowledge it. Embrace it - Welcome to the club!
00DAD
Eden, right we've sorted that out. Now, where do Michael and the resurrection fit into your scheme of things? Remember, he is mentioning those in the same context. Don't go according to the chapters and verses, the authors of the Hebrew-Aramaic Scriptures made no such distinctions. In the Daniel MS of the DSS there is not even a break between the Hebrew and Aramaic text. No, I think your theory needs more work.
Vidqun,
Daniel 12:1-3 is a natural prolongment of the prophecy of Daniel 11, that's why I also consider it in my article. I realize that the chapter/verse division is an artificial one.
First of all, I find controversial that Michael is indeed Jesus. Perhaps, perhaps not. The arguments advanced in favor of that identification don't completely persuade me. But that's an entirely different debate altogether. As for "resurrection", you must know that a resurrection can refer to a return to life in spiritual terms, like a spiritual reviving, from disfavor into grace. For example, see how Paul wrote about that in Ephesians 2:1 " Furthermore, [it is] YOU [God made alive] though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins". Also:, " Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him" (Colossians 2:13) I believe that this is precisely the kind of resurrection that Daniel spoke about. After the ordeal with the seleucian empire, where Michael, in the invisible realm, had to intervein to provide an escape to God's people, there would come a time when the Jews would have the chance [if they would embrace the Messiah, Jesus] to revive spiritually for eternal blessings, or to be forever out of God's special favor for rejecting the Messiah.
Eden
Welcome and thanks for sharing your website. The book of Daniel is very interesting.
I liked that you tube video. Thanks, although it made me sad. I don't know if my family will ever awaken. The WTBTS is a juggernaut.
It has been mentioned before, but... If you do not agree with the WTBTS's CURRENT teachings then you are having doubts. You could be an apostate if you are not careful. If you anger the wrong people you could be DF'd very quickly.
