How Modern Christianity has failed Christians (page 20)

Deputy Dog

cofty

Now who is avoiding difficult questions?

DATA-DOG

You are getting myself and Deputy Dog confused. I believe he asked the question about being a naturalist.

My point is that it REQUIRES intelligence from the greatest minds of our time to make any advancement in any field of study. If tomorrow a scientist makes life from lifeless matter, he/she did so because of his/her intelligence and experimentation, possibly for decades and using the knowledge of those who existed before him/her. If you made a better mouse-trap or toothpick factory, it required intelligence.

Nothing happens in a laboratory that is not directed by an intelligent scientist. Why couldn't another form of life have designed everything we know in the distant past with his/her intelligence?

Make wood from nothing, then make a toothpick. Then make metal. Next make a toothpick factory. Then make a toothpick sculpture with the toothpicks from the factory, from the wood that you made without posessing intelligence. It cannot be done.

Deputy Dog

cofty

Excuse my sarcasm, I'm sure you are committed to naturalism.

EntirelyPossible

CA, when I asked about trying to define life, I was serious, not mocking. It's not as easy as you think.

cofty

DD - please just tell me what you want to know and stop trying to be enigmatic. I never avoid questions in a debate.

I just can't tell when you are asking a question and when you are being rhetorical

Edited to add - Your right Data Dog I am confusing you with Deputy Dog

I still have no idea what the question is.

Deputy Dog

Cofty

I believe you are a naturalist. I was being sarcastic. Why won't you answer me about your statements?

cofty-I am convinced there is no supernatural realm.

OK, what convinced you? The lack of "natural" evidence?

cofty-I am certain that methodological naturalism is the key to discovery.

The key to discovery of God?

cofty

If tomorrow a scientist makes life from lifeless matter, he/she did so because of his/her intelligence and experimentation, - DATA DOG

So what if science simply explains in detail how life emerged from the chemicals and conditions that occurred naturally through simple bucket chemistry?

cofty

OK, what convinced you? The lack of "natural" evidence?

The total lack of evidence of any sort, the internal inconsistency of theism, the conflict between theism and science, the self-serving nature of supernatural belief that betray its origins - shall I go on?

The key to discovery of God?

What a bizarre question.

If anybody ever offers evidence for god it will need to be consistent with what we know to be true through science. Of course you have opted out of the world of evidence haven't you?

Deputy Dog

cofty

If anybody ever offers evidence for god it will need to be consistent with what we know to be true through science. Of course you have opted out of the world of evidence haven't you?

No, I'll accept scientific evidence. You on the other hand must live in a small universe, if scientific evidence is the only type you'll acept.

edited to add this question: How do you know science is reliable?

You said: "I am certain that methodological naturalism is the key to discovery"

How can you be so "certain"?

designs

Where Jesus failed Christians was in convincing them that they cannot please their god on their own, they needed him and him alone. Introducing 'Original Sin' was key to this propaganda. Strangely the NT writers while claiming Jesus is God and the author of the OT has this self proclaimed Messiah in direct contradiction to the Torah which proclaims that a person can please their god on their own and it is doable. This is the point of Deut. 30, Moses' farewell speech, 'you may' Moses tells the Jewish people in v14.

The Apostle Paul cleverly quotes Deut. 30 in Romans 10 but leaves out the vital point Moses makes with 'you may' in 30:14. Its the kind of omission that would make Fred Franz proud. Billions of followers of Jesus got suckered. 'You cannot', 'you are incapable', 'you are not good enough'; sounds like a cruel abusive parent taking the last glimmer of joy and promise out of a sweet child.

The Gospel of Matthew gained little ground within the Jewish community for the same reasons- manipulation and omission of the Jewish scriptures. Gentiles were gullible to a fault swallowing the message of Matthew, they didn't know any better, but the Jews knew a con game when they saw it. Jewish people are very thankful that Matthew tried to pull the con game as it is written. The Gentile world was not so lucky having 'Paul' as their guide through the Hebrew scriptures. The con game has convinced well over a Billion people currently living to accept 'Original Sin' as scriptural and their lot in life that only a specific human sacrifice could atone for. (Human sacrifice was another Big No No in Judaism). Pity the gullible.

How Modern Christianity has failed Christians

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