JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?! (page 5)

hamsterbait

We didnt force you to believe what we said.

You CHOSE to get wrong expectations about the end.

You CHOSE to do what you did.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

JW: Wow that's really good. You see, Jehovah is really blessing you now for all those years you spent pioneering. Jehovah's blessing is rich! [Repeated several times during the conversation for emphasis]
Me: [Facepalm]

It's funny how richly Jehovah is blessing me now that I'm no longer in bethel, not serving as an elder, and have stopped attending meetings.

likeabird

Agreed Billy - not praying helps enormously too.

rebel8

Interesting conversation you had. Please consider telling your friend my story and see what he says.

I happen to be one of the people who was literally (physically and financially) prevented from going to college by a dub. Dubbie Dearest stole my money so I couldn't take the SAT (college entrance exam) and grounded me on the day the test was given. Yes, grounded--punished for pleading to take a college entrance exam!

I tried to borrow $ from worldly relatives but they didn't want to interfere. Also I would have had a physical fight to contend with if I tried to go, and for me with hemophilia that was more injurious than it would be to a normal person. Not that I didn't already have near daily physical abuse to contend with, but this would have been a brawl. She was absolutely determined to prevent me from doing anything but pioneering.

She was being faithful to what the org was telling her--there was a TON of pressure to not go to college. It was mentioned at least once a week at the meetings, and the bros would constantly be approaching the teens after meetings and encouraging them not to go to college.

Yep, that was the state of God's organization in the 1980s, the org that has always had Jehovah's spirit, even back then distinguishable from false religion due to its sensibleness and love.

Did anyone go to university and find it to be one orgie after another, where beer and drugs were everywhere?

I've attended 4 colleges. I never knew of orgies. Beer and drugs were in some places but you could avoid those places (just like IN the cong lol). It's not as though students are laying around on the main quad snorting coke while having threesomes and playing Ouija, but that's what the dubs would have you believe. lol

rebel8

A recent talk by GB member G. Losch stated that going to University is like putting a gun to your head.

Don't you love it when uneducated people say education is bad or useless? How would they know?

ekruks

Oh man, some brilliant comments here!! Billy and likeabird on blessings being greater when quiting (they are!! lol) and rebel8 on beer and drink on the cong. Some brothers really tried to have high morals, but so do many who are not JWs - I would say Muslims, Amish, etc. exceed JWs at this!

From my experience of college (before I was pressured by elders to quit) the morals may not have been as high as the JWs encourage, but they were no different from the workplace. University is portrayed as so destructive, but being in the workplace to pioneer is ok - it's blatantly not the real reason the GB want us to miss university. As a young brother shielded from the world, I was shocked more by the workplace than college where we were too busy studying to do anything. As I grew older, people left me alone more at work, but at about ages 18-21, whether you are studying or working, you meet young people experimenting with feelings, discovering the world, sometimes painfully, and meet childish bullies perhaps more so than when an "adult".

My observations - please share yours!

Alcohol abuse: Both at college and work, there was peer pressure to go drinking, and people gave stories of being drunk, though some brothers drink a lot. One elder downed six shots, which is hardly 'moderation'.

Drugs: As for drugs, never saw any and no one mentioned it to me, though some people in the workplace talked about it. Pressure to smoke was not unique to college but in the workplace.

Wild parties: Never invited to parties at college or workplace, just drinking at pub. Lots of parties in the truth, though 'good' youngsters weren't usually invited such as me the serious pioneer. What I saw wasn't that different to world. Brothers drinking too much, flirting with sisters. These things often got out of control - one party has about 100 guests and music could be heard down the street. One sister got pregnant, supposedly at a party.

Peer pressure: This idea that at college young people have a friendship and get pressured applies to work too. There was no kind of fraternity in college, but hazing in work, and no there is aggressive hazing in Bethel where people get injured (all the stress of JW life comes out in anger).

Sex: Both at college and in the workplace I got bullied for not having a girlfriend, but I think this was because they thought I was a freak who was not interested in sex, and not because they were wanting me to join an orgie. One guy I worked with kept trying to get me to agree to go with him to a brothel, and even if it was teasing, no one in college did that. If I had been married, I wouldn't have been seen as a freak - they used to call me gay, but it was bullying, and I think a real gay would have been accepted. As for flirting, people asking you out, etc., more of that was in the workplace. It's not as if youngsters in the congregation didn't flirt, or get reproved for loose conduct or sex though it's often kept quiet.

Evolution: Lots of people in the workplace tried to convince me of evolution, and though I can find faults with it, I also find fault with the idea of God. Bullied in both workplace and college for religious beliefs - in workplace, people would destroy spiritual books, break my Bible, hit me, destroy stuff I was working on, etc.

ekruks

AM3 - "Philosophy 1 and Philosophy 2"

Hey AM3, I hope I meet you one day, because I want to know what the hell Philosophy 1 is? How does it differ from Philosophy 2?

I'm not trying to be rude or arrogrant, but I seriously gave a better talk when I was in kindergarten! I used evidence, which is probably why I struggled with the elders so much as I grew up and learnt more.

Sorry for my independent/critical thinking, my scientific approach, murmuring, whatever, but goodness sake, this is some strong, logical, intelligent argument, firmly backed up by evidence, just as you would expect from the Almighty God's chosen channel! Was the holy spirit having an off day, a bit like when those Baal priest met Elijah and they couldn't get Baal to light the fire, and he asked if their god couldn't help because he was having a crap? Maybe he was, so when the holy spirit came to portray the message to AM3, it told him crap! Is this guy so brainwashed (feel sorry for him?) or arrogant (?) that he can't see how pathetic it is? (Though yes, we all believed it once!)

james_woods

If you had done what they said in the 1960s and gone to U.S. Federal Prison instead of taking a CO job over the draft - that would have been YOUR FAULT too.

That is what they said when they changed their minds on taking CO assignments later on.

Band on the Run

Also, how adult is an 18 or 20 year old in our culture? What had you experienced in the larger world?

My beliefs and outlook are so different than when I was 18.

It is very moving to read what extreme lengths people went to become educated. I came so close to a life of pioneering. Normal people have no clue what we faced. My close friends later told me that they saw how my attitude was very different from their own. Altho it wasn't all fun, I felt so grateful for the opportunity to learn and the wider fellowship. Also, I had a series of crud jobs on my way. They had nothing with which to compare education.

My nephew could not see the point of school. His father is a structural engineer. He was driven to see laborers digging a pit for construction on one of the hottest days of the year. It changed his attitude towards school.

Spittn4Cash

problemaddict said:

Well ok lets think about this.
Yes they discourage higher education to no limit. It is pretty sick.
BUT.......your friend was right. I mean you did chose not to go to college. Their influence cannot be denied, but YOU made the choice not to go.
The only reason I'm even bringing this up, is because sometimes taking responsabiltiy for your actions, even if bullied into it, is a serious step to healing. This persons ignorance notwithstanding, it simply just doesn't matter. You are where you are because of decisions you have made. Now you are making different ones, and life is good! Don't let things that have already happened, impact you now. Know what I mean?

I mean this with love brother...but, get a clue.

In a court of law, when you sign a contract under duress it then becomes void, null and invalid. We also made decision within the organization under duress, therefore we are not liable for the decisions we HAD to make..."or else". You're blaming the victim for being victimized. That's like blaming a rape victim instead of blaming the rapist. You're shifting responsibility from the person who was responsible - to the victim.

I understand you're telling the OP to "man up" and "quit with the victim mentality" and showing tough love, but you are 100% wrong in your logic. That's very dangerous logic, because it opens the door for us to intentionally hinder another person, and then blaming that person for allowing us to hinder them..."it's YOUR fault that you obeyed me!"

I understand that were never going to get an apology from the WTBTS or from our parents, even though we're owed an apology. But we didn't choose this religion, we're not at fault for obeying the rules that were laid out for us. If you want to blame someone, blame the people who made the rules and not the people who followed the rules.

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

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