by Cold Steel 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Why lose the message because of symbolism ... things written in simple human terms ?
The fact that there is a Tree of Life in the new earth suggests that, for eternity, all the inhabitants of earth will have access to the tree of life
(in need of provision from God) .....cutting down would seem to indicate permanent blocking for all
symbolism... The use of one object or action (a symbol) to represent or suggest something else.
Eze.[1:26] Looked like a human being : the God who transcends the powers of the human imagination is pictured here in the likeness of an enthroned human king.
Things are put in human terms for understanding , so why try to apply physical laws or logic to a mere comprehension guide ?
Things like how can God breath with no air ? Where does he wash his clothes ? What does he eat ?
The fact that there is a Tree of Life in the new earth suggests that, for eternity, all the inhabitants of earth will have access to the tree of lifeand anyone who eats from it will be exiled?
OT wise, Cherubim and Seraphim had wings, more than two by the way. That angels sometimes appeared with or without wings is also written. ... In a psalm of David that appears in 2 Samuel 22:11 and Psalms 18:10, David said that the LORD “rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.” --=PSacramento=--
The angels accounted in scripture are subject to a metaphorical renditions, as are the animals with six heads, wings and tails like snakes. Ezekiel, as you noted, described cherubim as in “the likeness of four living creatures,” each with “four faces” and “four wings.” The faces were those of a man, ox, lion and eagle. (Ezekiel 1)
Metaphors are frequently employed throughout the scriptures. Take Psalms 18, which you, yourself, cited: “Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he [the L ord ] was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind!”
This sounds almost Homeric in its eloquence, but far from being literal, it’s quite metaphoric. “Yea, he did fly upon the wing of the wind....” (as if the wind had wings!) In the case of angels, the practical descriptions make them sound as though they are, in appearance, like men. John certainly describes the angels quite literally in a book that is full of metaphor. For example:
And I, John, saw these things and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. (Rev. 22)
Here the angel tell John explicitly that he is John’s fellowservant and of his brethren the prophets. We can hereby draw some conclusions from this. First, that the angel looked and spoke like the description of Jesus John gives, with some symbolism, in Chapter 1: “And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.”
If the angel appeared like this, no wonder John tried to worship him. Nevertheless, he was restrained, once in Chapter 22 and earlier, in Chapter 19. The second thing we can conclude is that whether these were the same angel or different ones, it’s quite evident that they were once mortal men, as evidenced by the second angel’s words. For, he said, he was John’s “fellowservant, and of [his] brethren the prophets.”
And the first time John attempted it, the angel said, “do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus....”In both cases, the angel forbids the worship, but in one case he’s a fellow prophet and in the earlier, he’s one of John’s fellowservants who has the testimony of Jesus, which no man can have without the power of the Holy Spirit.
In the case of the Cherubim, these most likely are angels of rank (four heads, four wings), while Seraphim were those who served in God’s presence (two wings). In these cases, I continue to be convinced that in all cases and types, angels are the same species as people, but in the case of Cherubim and Seraphim, these are two ranks of angels holding different keys of authority in the celestial abode. Indeed, according to the prophet Ezekiel, Lucifer was most likely once a Cherub:
Thou art the anointed cherub...thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.” (Ezekiel 38)
caliber
The fact that there is a Tree of Life in the new earth suggests that, for eternity, all the inhabitants of earth will have access to the tree of life
mP:
No it doesnt, nobody here knows what tree of life is or what it means. No where does the BIble say what you just presented. If im wrong show me th e scripture.
caliber:
We can see that angels were in the form of men because often they are described and mistaken for “men”. Consider these verses:
mP:
Thats because those angels were men...men who delivered messages. Thats what angel means, xians have often dishonestly create supernatural creatures where there is none inthe text.
The fact that there is a Tree of Life in the new earth suggests that, for eternity, all the inhabitants of earth will have access to the tree of life ~~Cal
No it doesnt, nobody here knows what tree of life is or what it means. No where does the BIble say what you just presented. If im wrong show me th e scripture. ~~~MP
Those who avail themselves of the sacrifice of Christ will see the tree of life again, for it stands in the middle of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem ( Revelation 21:2 , 22:1-2
22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations
The fact that there is a Tree of Life in the new earth suggests that, for eternity, all the inhabitants of earth will have access to the tree of life.
The reason the Lord placed a cherub to guard the Tree of Life was to keep Adam and Eve from partaking of it, and thus living forever in their sins in a fallen state. Once they had tasted of the forbidden fruit, their bodies and their natures became carnal, sinful and devilish. The scriptures state: " And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." (Genesis 3:22-23)
According to God's plan, man was destined to eat the forbidden fruit and to be redeemed through the shedding of blood to gain perfection. And because of Jesus' sacrifice for sin, men can be resurrected to bodies of glory. In other words, even though Jesus was resurrected with a body of flesh and bone (not blood), he was able to pass through walls and ceilings and ascend to Heaven. Adam and Eve couldn't do that. Jesus also is capable of traveling to anywhere throughout the cosmos and appearing in brilliant glory that would cause unprotected mortals to perish in flames if it weren't withheld. John writes: " Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2). Many JWs think they would be happy as beings without glory living forever in a garden, but they would soon tire of it. So God's placing the cherub to guard the tree of life wasn't being unforgiving on his part, but merciful.
mP: No it doesnt, nobody here knows what tree of life is or what it means. No where does the BIble say what you just presented. If im wrong show me th e scripture. ~~~MP
Caliber:
Those who avail themselves of the sacrifice of Christ will see the tree of life again, for it stands in the middle of the Holy City, the New Jerusalem ( Revelation 21:2 , 22:1-2
22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations
mP:
And what exactly does that mean ? Is everybody in China going to come to this single tree and eat a fruit ? Most will be dead before its their turn to a single peice or bite from a fruit.
If we take the Rev text literally its absurd, thus we are left with what amounts to a story about a tree in some city, and what ? Anyone can make up any story from that and none will be true or accurate.
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i dunno about cheese arse having wings----but i know life for me changed forever when i found out batman couldnt fly.
