resurrections- The Dubs are WRONG.

by refiners fire 39 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  refiners fire

  There is a passage in scripture that has always bothered me.
  it is in revelation 20, where satan is loosed after the 1000 years and misleads masses of perfect people yet again, into Warring against God.
  These are perfect people, not misled in regard of facts, how could the vast majority of them be misled, again?
  After a reading of Rev 20, Ive decided the Dubs interpretation is flat out. WRONG.
  From the dubs own Bible Verse 3 says that "Satan cannot mislead the nations anymore until after the 1000 years".
  So those nations must be there, after the millenium.

  verse4:
  .."I saw thrones, and there were those who sat on them"...
  144,000, right?
  ...."I saw the souls of those..who had worshipped neither the Wild beast, nor ITS IMAGE..and they ruled with the Christ for 1000 years".
  Now, the "image" wasnt created until 1945.
  So how can the 144,000 be sealed in 1935?
  But thats only a minor point.
  These dead in Christ, the 144,000, come to life and rule 1000 years.

  verse 5 and 6 say:
  ..."The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1000 years were ended.This is the first resurrection.... Happy is anyone having part in the first resurrection..they will rule as Kings for 1000 years"...
  Clearly, the First resurrection refers to the 144,000.Though the scripture passage is badly phrased. Those dead in Christ.
  The REST of THE DEAD are not raised until AFTER the 1000 years.
  Thats what their own translation says.
  surely this debunks their interpretation of the dead being raised during the millenium.
  John 5 v 29 speaks of a resurrection of "life" and a resurrection of "judgement'. 2 ressurections, the second one at the end of the millenium, (the resurrection of "judgement"?)
  The wicked will be resurrected then. Hence, the presence of myriads of opposers of God at the end of the Millenium.

  What say you?
• 

  Xander

  Wow - interesting comments. I had never thought about the timing of the resurrections, but your comments do make for some interesting problems for the j-dubs.

  Unfortunately, it looks like something 'easy' to fix by publishing 'new light'. In fact, their ?possible? changing positions on the courtyards might lay groundwork for similar changes in understanding.

  Too bad no JW will see the obvious problem here. Only 'apostates'. And we already know their beliefs are all bullshit, anyway. [8>]

  A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
  --George Santayana
• 

  blondie

  Actually, Jehovah's Witnesses currently believe that the image of the wild beast first came into being as the League of Nations in 1920 and went into the abyss shortly before WWII and the image of the beast came out of the abyss in 1945 as the United Nations. Prior to that, I think the image of the beast was considered "to mean the Protestant Federation of Churches" in Studies of the Scriptures Volume IV. That is because the Beast was considered to be the Papal System and that the Protestant religions were considered an image of that.
• 

  Farkel

  refiners fire,

  : verse4:
  : .."I saw thrones, and there were those who sat on them"...
  144,000, right?
  : ...."I saw the souls of those..who had worshipped neither the Wild beast, nor ITS IMAGE..and they ruled with the Christ for 1000 years".
  : Now, the "image" wasnt created until 1945.
  : So how can the 144,000 be sealed in 1935?

  Excellent observation! More importantly, it shows that even if the "Wild Beast" came into existence with the League of Nations, the vast majority of the 144,000 in the almost 1,900 years prior didn't have to worry about any "Wild Beast" to "fornicate" with. Sometimes God just isn't fair.

  : verse 5 and 6 say:
  : ..."The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1000 years were ended.This is the first resurrection.... Happy is anyone having part in the first resurrection..they will rule as Kings for 1000 years"...
  : Clearly, the First resurrection refers to the 144,000.Though the scripture passage is badly phrased. Those dead in Christ.
  : The REST of THE DEAD are not raised until AFTER the 1000 years.
  : Thats what their own translation says.
  : surely this debunks their interpretation of the dead being raised during the millenium.
  : John 5 v 29 speaks of a resurrection of "life" and a resurrection of "judgement'. 2 ressurections, the second one at the end of the millenium, (the resurrection of "judgement"?)
  : The wicked will be resurrected then. Hence, the presence of myriads of opposers of God at the end of the Millenium.

  The Watchtower society says that the dead coming to "life" at the end of the millennium means they have earned their right to eternal life. Therefore, the use of the word "resurrection" here is not literal. But then again, they are a bunch of clueless morons.

  Farkel
• 

  refiners fire

  Fark.
  I dont believe any of it of course.
  Im just throwing Ideas about for lurkers to think about.
  The interpretation I laid out there is actually the 7th day adventist interpretation. I think it vastly superior to the Witness interp.
  

  The Watchtower society says that the dead coming to "life" at the end of the millennium means they have earned their right to eternal life.

  Hence, not literal but speaking figuratively.
  Beware of intermixing figurative and literal fulfillments in the same passage.

  verse5
  .. "but the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were ended"...
  FIGURATIVE.(to live "again" dont you have to have lived "before"?
  when did they do that if they have been imperfect until this point?)

  verse6
  ..."They shall reign with Christ 1000 years"...
  LITERAL.

  verse7
  ..."Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"...
  LITERAL loosing. FIGURATIVE prison.
  
  verse8
  ...."he shall go out to decieve Gog and Magog"...
  FIGURATIVE nations.LITERAL "going out"

  verse9
  ..."and they compassed about the beloved city"...
  FIGURATIVE city.

  etc.
• 

  refiners fire

  Note this.
  First Thessalonians 4 v 16
  ...."the Lord himself shall descend from heavenwith a commanding call...and those dead in union with Christ shall rise first"...

  surely This does not refer to Christ invisible presence in heaven, when it speaks of His descending FROM heaven?
  Surely it refers to His return to the Earth.
  And note that it is when he descends that the dead in Christ rise.
  The resurrection of the 144000 thus, does not occur until his literal return.
  This return is not some vague symbolic invisible event.
  Matthew 24 itself says:
  "If people say to you he is in the wilderness, look he is in the inner chamber, do not believe it"..
  Surely this is a warning to beware against those who claim his return is invisible.Matthew 24 calls this practise 'deception'.
  verse 30 of Matthew 24 says:
  ..."all the tribes of the earth...will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great authority.
  Surely it is literal.
  If you believe the Bible, that is.
• 

  Will Power

  refiners

  If you have a CDRom or a NWT Check the footnote (*) after the word Lord in that passage. 1 thes 4:16. It call the Lord here Jehovah!

  p.s. that is the passage they use to show that Jesus is Michael but their own footnote says it is Jehovah!
• 

  butalbee

  Have the dubs ever been right about anything?
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  refiners fire

  Buta.
  Ive looked at a lot of churches.
  The dubs, IMO, have got vitually nothing right. All their reasonings are twisted.This stuff Im posting now is Adventist interpretation.
  It makes much more sense to me.Assuming of course the entire Bible isnt garbage.
  The dubs pull bits of scripture from all over the place to explain their absurd interpretations.
  Its just awful.
• 

  butalbee

  Refiners--I feel the same exact way.