All I am saying is some basic emergency preparedness is always wise and it's a good idea to stay physically fit!
A comet coming to end the world? Useful information?
by EntirelyPossible 177 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
sabastious
Well, now, I didn't say such one shouldn't try to save as many lives as THEY can. I didn't even know we were discussing that, per se. I thought we were discussing telling the government/science, etc. Right? Or did I miss something?
My point is that defending against a comet WILL require the combined efforts of many scientists. The earlier those scientists know about the comet the more probable it is that they will develop a workable defense. They'd need to know specifics about the comet as soon as possible. On the other hand if they are not informed it may be too late when they become aware of it. If someone knows the comet is coming, then they should inform the authorities so that scientists can develop a strategy. Time would be of the essence and the fate of the world would lie in the balance. If the voice hearer chose to just go into a cave with their family and friends, that would be inhuman. It would be tragic if that person just assumed there was no way out when we have science to make attempt to defend with.
Interesting. Does that apply to, say, Iran, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Pakistan, Tibet, Kurdistan, etc., etc., etc., too? Because I don't think my telling, say, the U.S. and others forces who, say, drops bombs on innocent folks... or the fanatical terrorists who blow themselves up... that if they all don't just stop that mess because one day they're gonna all reap what they sow... is gonna stop THEM.
I don't see how that example applies to this discussion. We are talking about a voice telling a woman that a comet is going to hit earth. This person has inside information as to the fate of the known world and she doesn't seem interested in informing the right people. This means she is crazy or a liar.
I understand what YOU are saying, dear Sab. Perhaps you can try to understand what I am saying. Perhaps not. No worries, though. It's just a hypothetical situation anyway.
I see that you want to change the details and talk about those instead. I am little worked up about this topic because there are so many people on this planet who believe in the world ending. I was raised by such people and it surrounded me for the majority of my life. I have learned that their ghastly views about God and the universe is just their misanthropy showing through their psychology. It genuinely freaks me out to think that some people would just watch a comet come and kill everybody and believe it was part of some higher purpose. It grosses me out.
-Sab
-
EntirelyPossible
Agreed, Sab. No need to worry - Anyone who is told such "stuff" should simply start by asking themselves, "Now would God REALLY want that? Would Christ? WHY would God/Christ want that?" and then ask whoever it is to SHOW them.
I mean... c'mon: in the Christian mythos we're supposed to be sheep, yes. And sheep DO need to be led, yes... because their are predators . We don't have to be STUPID sheep, though. And falling for THAT (or anything similar... unless you're a child)... is sorta... well, you know where I'm going with this.
"God doesn't want you to kill people, my child, but He wants you to let billions die even though I could easily give you the information..."
Really? REALLY??
Vulnerable, perhaps. Gullible, maybe. Stupid? -
AGuest
This person has inside information as to the fate of the known world and she doesn't seem interested in informing the right people. This means she is crazy or a liar.
I am not sure... nor did I ever imply... that he wouldn't be interested in informing the right people, dear Sab (again, peace to you!). I'm just saying that perhaps the government leaders/scientists aren't the right people. I cannot imagine that he wouldn't inform ANYONE...
I am little worked up about this topic because there are so many people on this planet who believe in the world ending.
Yes, but IS it? My understanding is that the earth was not made for nothing, that it will NOT totter. So, while I am understanding your comet hypothetical, again, I don't think you're WANTING to understand what I am saying. And, again, that's okay. People often DON'T understand one another as to some matters... or at the beginning of discussing them, at least. And that seems to be what's occurring here. I hope that you don't allow our differences in understanding THIS matter be a bone of contention; it need not be. We just have different viewpoints on it. I don't think either of us will the other... or their loved ones... harm, though, so perhaps we can just chalk it up as a topic we're not quite seeing eye to eye on just yet, if ever? I'm cool with that. Can you be?
Ah, well, prophets never do have any actual useful information. Full of warnings, full of knowledge, full of vague non-specifics, full of IT until nothing happens and then they are full of excuses.
False prophets, no. Never... and always. Which is why folks tend not to listen to true prophets. "Boy crying wolf" syndrome... and totally understandable.
there is no real way to prepared except to go through it.
Sometimes, yes. And while some matters may call for more physical preparedness, most are going to call for mental/emotional preparedness. At least to the extent that one has learned to keep one's wits about oneself... and perhaps not panic... so as to SEE what they might need to... can... and cannnot... do... physically. For example, a mom lifts a car off her crushed child. Do really think that was a physical feat? Or perhaps one where the mom's MENTAL and EMOTIONAL abilities... OVERCAME her physical limitations? The mind can be just as, if not more powerful... than the body.
Agreed! I mean, if someone were to go around saying God or a spirit had told them specific things like Iran had a dirty bomb and to prepare but not to tell their family, I mean, that would be irresponsible if they actually had that knowledge!
I don't necessarily agree - perhaps part of the preparation is NOT telling others... until the time comes for them to know. I mean, as a mom I knew of all SORTS of dangers that my children WOULD face as they grew up. Some I told them quite early - others, I had to wait until a time where they would understand what I meant and have developed enough good judgment skills of their own to avoid the danger.
But, since, as we both agree, prohpets like that are full of it (and history has proven the track record of such ones to be an abject failure) I wouldn't imagine it's anything we would ever have to worry about.
Don't necessarily agree with that, either (and not sure where you got that I did, other than your usual habit of stating something as fact and saying that others MUST agree). I can think of several instances where a true prophet spoke, heck, even tried to warn people. As well as time when even science/governments have spoken and warned... and went utterly ignored. So...
Oh, I think it's clear that IF someone ACTUALLY had knowledge of an event and selected who to tell, they that person would bear the bloodguilt in eyes of GOD for NOT telling people because of fear of their reaction.
Yeah, no, I feel pretty comfortable saying that if He (God) told them to tell everyone of certain things FIRST, like, say... they need to listen to a leader HE appointed... because this leader is the one who is actually going to warn everyone... and they did that, shared that with everyone... and few... or no one... LISTENED... so as not to listen to the one who was actually going to do the warning... then no, He wouldn't be mad at the "someone," at all. I mean, it's on those told WHO to listen TO, is it not, that they didn't listen to the "someone" who said, "Hey, look, everyone... there's some stuff coming... but I don't know when... but I do know someone who does... and really, if you want to know you should listen HIM!"?
But, as we agree, such ones never do actually have that knowledge, so this is FIRMLY in the realm of the hypothetical.
As we agree for purposes THIS discussion, yes, absolutely. All in the realm of hypothetical. Outside of this discussion, no agreement, no.
Ah, well, given how easy it would be to provide "proof" of a comet, is would be lunacy for any spirit to NOT provide it.
Of a comet, perhaps. Perhaps not. Perhaps, in this hypothetical... the tools don't yet exist to detect such proof. Now, I realize you (and maybe dear Sab) might say, "Well, if warned, such tools could be developed!" Which may be true: adequate tools might be able to be developed. But I think the likelihood of that, prior to any "acceptable" proof already being manifest... would be slim to none. "They" would have to have some ability to "see" the comet for themselves FIRST. So, they would ignore the "message"... until "they" COULD "see" it. At which point, it MIGHT be too late. Which is sad because walking by sight often causes things to end up that way. Heck, some folks don't even heed warnings they can SEE (think, smoking volcano...).
Besides, look at how boldly YOU preach! Fear of man is NEVER an excuse.
Well, THAT'S true. But fear of man is not always involved. Sometimes it's simply obedience to the source.
Ah, I see! YOu simply misunderstand! Amateurs have contributed a significant amount to the discovery of comets over the year! If someone has this foreknowledge and were 8, they could simply say "Look through a telescope on this date at these coordinates at this time to see a comet" and other astronomers would be able to find it and plot its path. Simple as can be.
Oh, my bad - I did not understand the discussion to be about someone, even an 8 year old boy... who SAW the comet for himself, but only HEARD that one was coming. Certainly, if he can SEE the thing coming, he would be able to provide the kind of "proof" others would need to wake up and take notice. Because now THEY can see it...
Besides, why would God choose to share the message only with someone with no capability to deliver the message? Silly, of course!
Because perhaps that's merely a reward for sharing another message. Maybe something like I stated above: "Hey, look, I heard that comet's coming... and I believe the One who told me, although I have not seen it (but he's never lied to me before)... and he will tell you, too, as well as what to do when the time comes... so you should listen to him..." And if they're smart, they might at least see if what he says is true... by listening to the one he says CAN warn them...
Well, because as you said, no such prophets exist... they can't tell the future.
THEY can't. They can only share what one who CAN has given them. That's not THEM telling the future... but simply relaying the message of someone who can.
It was a TRICK QUESTION
No, it wasn't. Truly.
and only I caught it. YAY ME!
Oh, don't be so hard on yourself. It really was a sincere question. You just didn't get the point. But no need to be hard on yourself for that, either. I am sure many don't get it, so you're not alone. Try logic. That might help you. Might. Might not, just as well.
A doulos of Christ,
SA
-
AGuest
My Lord has asked me to ask you, dear Sab (again, peace to you!)... if YOU have perhaps heard of someone who says that a comet is coming... and you believe such a person (perhaps because you have not found them to be a liar)... such that YOU now know... should YOU say anything to the government/science field? And if so, what would YOU say... to whom... how... and when?
My understanding is that you don't have to respond here - you can simply respond to him. If you don't believe he directed me so... and asked this of you... you can also ask about that of him, as well.
Peace to you!
A doulos of Christ,
SA
-
cofty
My Lord has asked me to ask you, dear Sab ....
Of course he has dear.
-
sabastious
My Lord has asked me to ask you, dear Sab (again, peace to you!)... if YOU have perhaps heard of someone who says that a comet is coming... and you believe such a person (perhaps because you have not found them to be a liar)... such that YOU now know... should YOU say anything to the government/science field? And if so, what would YOU say... to whom... how... and when?
My response:
If the person who communicated with the spirit was not given means to verify the comet then I personally would assume the spirit was mistaken. Therefore, I would have no compelling reason to inform the proper authorities. On the other hand if the claim could be verified and the person chose to NOT inform the proper authorities, then that person is an accomplice to genocide as would be any they adequately informed of the method of confirmation who also kept it secret. This is because the scientific community HAS the capability to deflect or destroy a comet. It's theoretical, but necessity has always been the mother of invention. Not giving it a try would be an act of foolishness. With something like a comet every second we could get in advance would count. If the spirit refused to cooperate, I would suspect it to have ill intentions.
If I was given the means to verify a threat to humanity from a higher power I would inform science in the best way available.
-Sab
-
still thinking
We are talking about inside information that directly affects the fate of the known world. Common sense applies which says that ignorant people in peril deserve to be informed of it. If you see a known criminal charging an old lady without her notice do you NOT inform her because it's not your responsibility? It's just common sense that you don't watch others suffer needlessly when you have any availability to mitigate that suffering....sab
I think this is a good point. Couldn't that also apply to the God that the message is being received from? Doesn't he watch suffering when he could DO something about it?
Kinda makes sense that his followers would act the same way as their god.
-
sabastious
Doesn't he watch suffering when he could DO something about it?
That's why God created object permanence. He also created free will and when you combine the two you get people going behind closed doors and doing bad things. If you remove the privacy free will is impinged upon.
If you notice God doesn't know where Adam and his wife are in Genesis 3:
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
That's because he created it that way. He gave Adam privacy. What a gift!
-Sab
-
cofty
Ah the willful ignorance defense of god.
That's original.