by William Penwell 23 Replies latest jw experiences
Get this... When my mom died of a very rare form of cancer, the hospital requested an autopsy to study the rare form of cancer. My aunt, a lifelong jw and widow of a zone servant.... said this was not allowed by the society because it was mutilating the body.
This same aunt left instructions to be cremated when she died...and she was.
At the time, I did not see anything crazy with this....
Now... I'm just shaking my head.....
Coffee
The reason why I wanted to know the borgs policy on this is because certian relative's are making snide remarks about "why we want them". I am just so glad I am away from this BS for the most part. Just in sitations like this you have to deal with the brain dead relatives.
A close relative of mine said if he had his father ashes, he would flush them down the toilet. This was said while he is an elder.
Also as a side note, you can have ashes net off and have a man made diamond from the ashes, which is kinda neat
NJY
Can they decide for themselves?
If you can't decide amongs yourselves, you're screwed.
If you ask an Elder, they'll have to schedule an elders meeting; after finding no info from the Slave; they will have to call the CO; who will have to ask the DO; who will need to send correspondence to the Service Dept. In about 6 months the answer will appear in a Questions From Readers article. Hope "Dad" is looking OK on the mantle until then.
Doc
Sheesh. What do they THINK you want to do with your dad's ashes?
*** w96 9/15 pp. 30-31 Back to Dust—How? ***
What Is the Scriptural View?
In a pronouncement against “the king of Babylon,” the prophet Isaiah said: “You have been thrown away without a burial place for you.” (Isaiah 14:4, 19) Should the scattering of ashes be compared to such a case of humiliation? No, for there is no reference to cremation and the preservation or the scattering of the resulting ashes.
Jesus Christ spoke of the earthly resurrection of the dead that will take place during his Millennial Reign when he said: “All those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) However, that a specific grave is not necessarily required to resurrect a person is borne out in another prophetic description of the resurrection. Revelation 20:13 states: “The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them.” So, what matters is not where or how a person ‘returns to dust.’ Rather, it is whether he is remembered by God and is resurrected. (Job 14:13-15; compare Luke 23:42, 43.) Jehovah certainly does not need impressive tombs to help him remember people. Cremation does not prevent a person’s resurrection. And if the scattering of ashes is done with a proper motive and without false religious ceremonies, it would not be incompatible with the Scriptures.
Those who decide in favor of scattering the ashes will need to pay attention to the law of the land. It would also be appropriate for them to take into account the feelings of the bereaved and others. Servants of Jehovah will do well to be careful that exercising their Scriptural freedom in this regard does not bring reproach upon the good name Christians bear. This is especially important in lands where cremation and the scattering of ashes are legally permissible but not yet fully accepted in the community. Of course, a Christian will stay away from any rites or customs based on the belief in the immortality of the human soul.
So, in a nutshell, whatever you decide to do make sure it doesn't "bring reproach on Jehovah's name"!!!
That's the best they can come up?
Just to keep remembering that whatever you decide the bOrg is still in control of everything you do.
Clearly an avenue of micro management yet to be explored along with completely irrelevant and inappropriate application of scriptures.
Nah, there's no money to be made so you get to make this decision all by yourself.
Sorry for your loss and how inapproprite you should be guilted into worrying about the viewpoint or disapproval of a book publishing corporation at this sad time.
Only thing I could find that touches on the subject: *** w96 9/15 pp. 29-31 Back to Dust—How? *** Back to Dust—How? “DUST you are and to dust you will return.” When the first man, Adam, heard those words, he knew what to expect. He had been made from the dust of the ground and would return to nothing more than dust. He would die because he had disobeyed his Creator, Jehovah God.—Genesis 2:7, 15-17; 3:17-19. The Bible shows that humans are made of dust. It also says: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4; Psalm 103:14) Death has brought grief to millions and has repeatedly raised questions about the disposing of human remains. Past and Present Practices How were human remains disposed of among God’s people of ancient times? In its early pages, the Bible mentions various ways of dealing with the dead, including burial in the ground. (Genesis 35:8) The patriarch Abraham and his wife, Sarah, as well as their son Isaac and grandson Jacob were buried in the cave of Machpelah. (Genesis 23:2, 19; 25:9; 49:30, 31; 50:13) Israelite judges Gideon and Samson were buried ‘in the burial places of their fathers.’ (Judges 8:32; 16:31) This suggests that having family grave sites was preferred among the ancient people of God. When Jesus Christ died in the first century C.E., his body was laid in a newly hewn rock tomb. (Matthew 27:57-60) Generally, then, human remains were buried in the earth or were entombed. This is still the practice in most places around the earth. In some parts of the world today, however, a serious shortage of space and the high cost of land are making it increasingly difficult to obtain burial sites. Therefore, some people are considering other ways of disposing of human remains. Scattering the ashes after the cremation of human remains is becoming more common. In England about 40 percent of the dead are now cared for in this manner. In Sweden, where over 80 percent of the deceased in urban areas are cremated, certain woodlands are designated for the scattering of ashes. And in Shanghai and a few other maritime cities of China, city governments sponsor mass scatterings at sea several times a year. Where can ashes be scattered? Not just any place. Some may fear that scattering the ashes is detrimental to the environment. Actually, though, any possible risk of epidemics is nullified through cremation. Certain cemeteries in England and memorial parks in the United States set aside lawn areas or flower gardens as scattering grounds. Of course, Christians are especially concerned about the Scriptural view of cremation and the scattering of ashes. What Is the Scriptural View? In a pronouncement against “the king of Babylon,” the prophet Isaiah said: “You have been thrown away without a burial place for you.” (Isaiah 14:4, 19) Should the scattering of ashes be compared to such a case of humiliation? No, for there is no reference to cremation and the preservation or the scattering of the resulting ashes. Jesus Christ spoke of the earthly resurrection of the dead that will take place during his Millennial Reign when he said: “All those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.” (John 5:28, 29) However, that a specific grave is not necessarily required to resurrect a person is borne out in another prophetic description of the resurrection. Revelation 20:13 states: “The sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Hades gave up those dead in them.” So, what matters is not where or how a person ‘returns to dust.’ Rather, it is whether he is remembered by God and is resurrected. (Job 14:13-15; compare Luke 23:42, 43.) Jehovah certainly does not need impressive tombs to help him remember people. Cremation does not prevent a person’s resurrection. And if the scattering of ashes is done with a proper motive and without false religious ceremonies, it would not be incompatible with the Scriptures. Those who decide in favor of scattering the ashes will need to pay attention to the law of the land. It would also be appropriate for them to take into account the feelings of the bereaved and others. Servants of Jehovah will do well to be careful that exercising their Scriptural freedom in this regard does not bring reproach upon the good name Christians bear. This is especially important in lands where cremation and the scattering of ashes are legally permissible but not yet fully accepted in the community. Of course, a Christian will stay away from any rites or customs based on the belief in the immortality of the human soul. Full Freedom From the Grave! Some who advocate the scattering of ashes say that it means freedom from burial in graves. Bringing the greatest relief, however, will be the fulfillment of the Bible’s promise that “as the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.”—1 Corinthians 15:24-28. This means that graves, tombs, even cremation and the scattering of ashes, will become things of the past. Yes, death will be no more. Under divine inspiration the apostle John wrote: “I heard a loud voice from the throne say: ‘Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.’”—Revelation 21:3, 4. All of this will come about when human death resulting from Adam’s sin is completely done away with under God’s Kingdom. At that time obedient mankind will not be faced with the prospect of returning to the dust. [Pictures on page 29] Common methods of handling human remains [Picture on page 31] Scattering ashes in Sagami Bay, Japan [Credit Line] Courtesy of Koueisha, Tokyo
Hello William! I am sorry to hear about your Father. In regards to his ashes, I would do what I felt about them, and not let anyone else dicate something that is so important to you. I do know that some super uber dubs frown on keeping the ashes, as they consider it to be a form of Idolatry to keep the ashes and memorialize them. I personally am keeping the ashes of a dear loved one in a beautiful tortoise finished box, with a nice commemorative brass plaque, and I either touch or give a soft kiss almost every day, saying how much I miss her. I find nothing wrong with this, and it is very therapeutic for me, and had I just dumped the ashes, I would have been upset that I don't still have a part of her around me.
If you want to keep the ashes of your Father, keep them. Do not let anyone dictate to you how you shoud feel. Please. You will feel much better about it.
If your family refuses to give you the ashes, and they intend on dumping them anyway, ask if you can have them for a day as a final send off or something, and replace the ashes with some others. You can then keep your Father's real ashes, and they will be none the wiser when you give them a replacement that they will scatter somewhere. I am being serious about this. I would have done this in a heartbeat had I thought that someone was going to take away my loved one's ashes.
I wish you the best, and I hope that you are able to resolve your matter.
The borg is not in control of me but I was asking the question for those dub relatives that find this offending. Anyway I have spoken with some of my dub relatives and they are going to allow me to honor my father the way I want to.
