not ready to go over to the "dark side" (page 4)

Ding

I agree with ChristAlone that Cofty's article presents a totally different view that the WT line, using scriptures "mother" never showed us.

Rob Crompton

The trouble is, if you find a church all of whose doctrines you agree with and think that it must therefore be the true church, you are psychologically committed to never changing your mind.

If you feel the need to find a church, it is best to look for one in which a wide breadth of thinking is represented. That way, you have the freedom to use your (God-given?) intellect fully without thinking that if you discover something new you will have to move on to yet another church.

Christ Alone

Thanks erbie. I've found that freedom in Christ is so different from what we knew as JWs. That's one thing I LOVE about Ray's book, "In Search of Christian Freedom." I hope everyone that leaves reads it. If you would like a PDF copy, PM me and I will send it. Since I believe it is out of print, I don't think it would be unethical to send it.

That is one thing I love about Galatians. We are no longer under law. Not just the Mosaic law, but ANY law. We now have the law of love. By God's grace we are able to investigate, choose for ourselves, and live in true freedom. Freedom from sin. Freedom from works. Freedom from judgement.

problemaddict

Hey Now what,

The advise here has run the gammut. i am sure you can make your own decition. Here are just a few thoughts.

1) There are other groups that do not believe in the trinity, in hell fire, and in an earthly paradise f that is the only real things you have beef with mainstream Christianity not believing.

2) The "where else is there" question is false from the beginning. The scripture says Peter is speaking to jesus and says "To WHOM else shall we go..." Very different concept. Its ok. It can be a while to realize these thoughts are still contradictory. I'm still detoxing and its only been 5 months.

3) Doctrine is not truth. Doctrine is doctrine. Doctrine can be proved false, or argued with gusto. the bible teachings on fornication, divorce, and a handful of things are clear. Much of the rest is at least "up for discussion". How do you feel about 8 men in Brooklyn telling you to think like them, or not only can oyu not be a Christian, you need to be excommunicated? How do you feel about a Christian exercising their conscience in regards to blood, but possibly disfellowshipped for using it? How do you feel about enforcement of belief? How do you feel about protecting reputation over children when it comes ot pedophilia? What makes you think God needs a human group or corporation to carry out his will, since in the end he will read the heart, where the true man and woman lies?

Think about these things. If you compromise your priciples because there is nothing else better, its like settle for a $#!T sandwhich because you never considered peanut butter and jelly as things tht would go together.

Just my 2 cents.

Lozhasleft

Hello NowWhat?, an interesting thread....first please check the actual translation of that question. You will find that it's not a 'where' else to go but a 'whom' and that changes everything. The WTBS have shown themselves to be a part (daughter) of Babylon the Great, so, a false religion. That means as you know that you have to 'Get out of her my people...'

When on earth Christ clearly told us that HE is the Truth, the Word, the Life, the Way, the Light etc. our ONLY access to His and our Heavenly Father Jah, is through Him, the Door to the sheepfold. He said "Come to ME..." NOT "go to the WTBS, or this or that church"....he gave us all we need to reach Him and know Him and His father. Take some time and think, really think, about what He's saying to you, and to us all?

Loz x

unstopableravens

it will take up much space to write all the false doctrine of the jw compared to the bible! it will take less time to write what they have correct,

problemaddict

Hey CA,

I read Coftys link you provided. While I appreciate it is simply a commentary, the translation of his quotes is not provided, and there is a quite abit of assumption in the redux. I personally reject the doctine of the Trinity, but also think it isn't worth an arguement over when you understand what Christian faiths usually teach as opposed to the modalism that the WT usually addresses.

That being said, I think the nature of the relationship of the father and son is one best described by....well......father and son. So that is how I view them. I try not to overcomplicate it.

A good example of assumption is the translation of John 14:14. Highly suspect as a suggestionof prayer being rendered to Jesus.

Christ Alone

That's cool, problem addict. I get your view. Obviously since I once held the same view! :-)

As far as cofty's article, those are scriptures that should carry the same idea regardless of translation. The point he was making was not necessarily that the early Christians believed Jesus was deity (which I believe they did). But he was showing that the focus was ALL on Jesus and not on the fictional name "Jehovah". That name occurs a grand total of 0 times in the New Testament. No, all focus was on Jesus. People were blessed in Jesus name. Jesus was worshiped. Jesus name was greater than all other names. It was in Jesus name that we were to be baptized. Jesus was all in all. Everything. I have a challenge for you, problem addict. It'll be an interesting one, I think. Go back to cofty's article, and substitute the name "Jesus" for "Jehovah". I guarantee you will have a clear picture of JW "theology". They substituted Jesus every time that they could. And you will see this if you substitute the name in ever scripture cofty quoted.

For myself, I do not hold to what any specific definition of "Trinity". Many times when you try to define God, it is insufficient. I've also found that most JWs do not know what the Trinity actually teaches. Many think that the Trinity teaches that Jesus and the Father are the same. The same person. So they ask, "Well Jesus prayed to the Father. Did He pray to Himself?" This shows that they do not understand the scriptures. The Trinity merely says that Jesus is called "God" in the Bible. The Holy Spirit too is called "God" in the Bible. They are 3 very separate unique persons. However, when referring to "God", you are referring to 1 of 3 people. The Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Or you are referring to all collectively.

The Bible says that there is only ONE God. This we accept. Then when the Bible calls the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit "God", we are left with only one conclusion. In the nature of ONE God, there are 3 people. Just as in the nature of Angel, there are many people. In the nature of MAN, there are many people. But God is unique in that He is united in substance. Jesus Christ is divine. He is eternal. He made all things that have been made. Not all OTHER things, which would be the case if Jesus Himself were created. No, he created ALL THINGS. Nothing that was made was made without Jesus Christ. Nothing.

This I have accepted. But I understand that many others have a hard time with this understanding and reject it. I don't force it. It's just something that I've concluded based on my study alone. Not outside materials. Not outside churches. Just a reading of the NT.

label licker

Idol:an image or object considered as a god, and worshiped as having divine powers, objects of infatuation, a false or misleading idea, a fallacy Idolater: One who worships an idol, a blindly devoted admirer Idolatrous: Blindly devoted Idolatry: Excessive or undiscerning admiration, blind infatuation Idolism: A false idea, to love or admire blindly or to excess You decide who or what's the darkside. Hope this helps you find your answer

not ready to go over to the "dark side"

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