JW Apologists Keep Commenting (page 4)

steve2

cantleave - you may be literally "correct" - but your, ahem, method of communicating your correctness lacks empathy and is off-putting.

Similarly, Judge Rutherford made many "correct" comments about "Christendom's" hypocrisy - but his method of communicating - highly disrespectful, aggressive and sarcastic - got in the way of the perfectly good points he tried to convey. Exposure without respect often creates more heat than light.

Sometimes a little understanding and less harsh judgement work wonders. It gives people space to carefully consider your points without batting away unnecessary judgements.

I agree so much in principle with your comments about not supporting a delusional belief system. Yet in life sometimes we try to balance the need to be "correct" with the need to be "effective".

Up and completely leaving an organization regardless of commitments and relationships may not be the most effective in terms of getting a better result in terms of your personal goals for family and friends. For example, a close friend of mine realized several years ago the organization was not all it claimed to be but his wife was a born-in witness who would have baulked at any move on his part to leave. Gradually over the years he was able to share a few of his misgivings and slowly she could digest what he was saying and she became less reactive. Fact is, if he had left immediately, she would never have given him the time - or respectful listening ear - and he stood a chance of losing a perfectly loving spouse.

Life is not all about "correctness"; it also includes compassion and - here's the main point I'm making - planning ahead so that your outcomes have a greater likelihood of getting the results that are so imporant to you.

cantleave

But Steve, this isn't about staying in the organization for the sake of family and taking a softly, softly approach with loved ones. This is about justifying silly beliefs.

http://cfjp.weebly.com/basic-beliefs.html

EdenOne

Cantleave,

Contrary to your argumentation, you CAN choose to drop british citizenship and migrate to another country and stop paying taxes to support the Royal Family. You see, you HAVE A CHOICE, even if you were born in the UK. Why won't you change? Could it be because it would be far too disruptive to your current life? Well? Could it mean selling your house and losing your job? Could it mean that you wouldn't see Oxford, the Cotswalds, London and Chelsea playing at Stanford Bridge ever again? Could it be that you wouldn't go anymore to the local pub with yer mates to drink a pint? Could mean leaving your old mom and dad behind to never see her again? You see, YOU HAVE A CHOICE and you CAN CHANGE. The reason why you won't do it is because the price you have to pay to live up to your beliefs is such, that you decide you can live with that MINOR DISCOMFORT of being under an "obviously delusional" political regime that rules your life, whether you like it or not, admit it or not, accept it or not. In your case you even seem PROUD to support an "obviously delusional" political system. Go figure! And you don't really give a damn if the americans on the other side of the pond think you're silly or odd.

You see, people like me, perhaps you too, were born in the JW's, just as you were born a british citizen, and we used to be proud of it, because we thought we alone had "the truth". Now that I know that ain't so, why don't I leave? Precisely for the same reason why you won't quit being a british citizen despite you openly or patially disagree with your national political system or just find it anachronical. The price to pay is so damn high that you can live with the MINOR DISCOMFORT and just DEAL WITH IT the best way you can.

“What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.” - John F. Kennedy

Have you noticed about yourself that by leaving the Witnesses you haven't become one bit less intolerant?

Eden

RayPublisher

Cantleave what do you know about that site you linked to? Is that yours?

They seem to be really really close to what JWs SHOULD be.

EdenOne

I'm the promotor of that site, Ray.

Eden

dazed but not confused

Great video Eric! I came to sites like yours and this one as an "apologist" at first too. But I wouldn't write any comments, I would just reaffirm my faith within me. But quickly I came around to TTATT. I know we can't put a % on it but I’m sure it’s a high percentage that will soon wake up and come out of their coma.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!

steve2

But Steve, this isn't about staying in the organization for the sake of family and taking a softly, softly approach with loved ones. This is about justifying silly beliefs.

Fair enough - I appreciate the clarification. I've got no interest in justifying "silly beliefs" and yet...Isn't it also the case that the realization that one has been caught up in a religion that peddles silly beliefs is more gradual than overnight? I left the organization in the 1980s, not so much because I overtly concluded the beliefs were "silly" but more because I thought those beliefs were "misguided". It was only over the passage of time and my increased willingness to listen to others' views that I realized, not only were the JW beliefs misguided but they were also thoroughly silly, cranky, ridiculous and utterly worthless.

Despite my intelligence, it took time for the "light" to penetrate my primal brain.

So, too, with others who have left or are in the process of daring to listen to alternative views: It is a gradual process for many (okay, in some cases there's a sudden significant realization it is all bullsh*t - but those sorts of reactions are rare, I'd say).

One way that helps people realize the silliness of their beliefs is to ensure they don't feel "got at" personally, and to respectfully invite them to summon the courage to examine those beliefs and/or alternatives. Encouragement and positive reinforcement are two of the most effective methods of persuasion.

If they choose not to look or they equivocate, I don't think we help matters by resorting to pejorative and disrespectful language. It simply increases emotional reactivity all round and becomes one more barrier to "just looking at the facts".

I recall being exposed to some pretty zealous religious groups when I was a young JW lad going door to door. Their approach was bluntly aggressive and blatantly condemning of the Watchtower. Now, these groups may have literally been "correct" in their appraisal of the Watchtower but their stirdent manner blinded me to the good points they may have been trying to raise.

As I said, there's "being correct" and there's "being effective". Helpful communication requires a deft blend of the two. Ray Franz's approach epitomized those qualities so well.

RayPublisher

@ EdenOne - Duhhh okay thanks. I like your site. Don't agree with every doctrinal thing on there as it is almost a carbon copy of the JWs but still a good step in the right direction. Hats off to you.

@ dazed but not confused - Glad you like the vid, and it's encouraging to know that "yet another" JW woke up by simply looking at both sides online.

@ Steve2 - Well said. You said:

there's "being correct" and there's "being effective". Helpful communication requires a deft blend of the two. Ray Franz's approach epitomized those qualities so well.

RF was the king of that no doubt.

ÁrbolesdeArabia

Have you figured out if you know any of the Apologist coming to your site? Can you review from some Appliance where they are located and how often they visit your website? Could it be long lost friends trying to win you back to the Organization?

ÁrbolesdeArabia

Have you figured out if you know any of the Apologist coming to your site? Can you review from some Appliance where they are located and how often they visit your website? Could it be long lost friends trying to win you back to the Organization?

JW Apologists Keep Commenting

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