Can 70 years be symbolic in the Bible?

by Pterist 47 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Jeffro

  Larsinger58:

  Now here's the issue, Jeffro. You claim he makes a "correction" of the 70 years in Against Apion, but can you make that claim when in the same work, just a paragraph earlier he again asserts the 70-year period of exile? Is this a correction? If so, it is not a correction of Antiquities but his last statement of the 70 years in the previous paragraph of the same work! You are thus claiming he had an epiphany between 1.19 and 1.21!

  Sigh. Obviously Lars didn't see (or his delusional mind chose to ignore) that I already dealt with this false claim in a previous post in this thread.

  So I'll say it again...

  In Against Apion I Josephus also says Jerusalem was desolate during the 70 years, and not for seventy years. If someone goes somewhere during the week, it doesn't mean they were there all week.
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  mP

  Jeffro: Its amazing how Lars would want us to believe how exact these timetable measurements are. Jerusalem was exactly 70 years, this and that. Each King od Babylon was X years never partial. Everything just adds up so nicely and perfectly. Why God would make the Babylonian kings all die exactly on a year anniversary is amazing. If Babylon is evil why not just wipe them out instead of fiddling with the reigns of this eveil king and that bad king.
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  Jeffro

  Jeffro: Its amazing how Lars would want us to believe how exact these timetable measurements are. Jerusalem was exactly 70 years, this and that. Each King od Babylon was X years never partial. Everything just adds up so nicely and perfectly. Why God would make the Babylonian kings all die exactly on a year anniversary is amazing. If Babylon is evil why not just wipe them out instead of fiddling with the reigns of this eveil king and that bad king.

  Indeed. It is an interesting insight into the delusional mind. Any information that is not consistent with the delusion, such as the fact that each Neo-Babylonian king had an accession period of some number of months because of the previous king's part-year reign, or that any other errors in any other time period destroys their 'special' chronology is conveniently ignored.

  Either something quite traumatic happened to Lars for him to feel the need to develop such an elaborate delusion, or the condition is congenital. Either way, I hope he gets the proper psychiatric treatment soon.
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  Larsinger58

  JEFFRO: In Against Apion I Josephus also says Jerusalem was desolate during the 70 years, and not for seventy years. If someone goes somewhere during the week, it doesn't mean they were there all week.

  Oh, playing on words like COJ focuses on "for" vs. "at" Babylon. I can accept that. In fact, I applaud that because it is addressed and not ignored. But by the same token, "during the 70 years" could also mean Jerusalem was desolate for more than 70 years, which it was. Remember, per the Bible, Jerusalem was destroyed in year 19 of Nebuchadnezzar II. It was not until year 23 that the 70 years of sabbath keeping begins. So Jerusalem was desolate from the standpoint of being destroyed for 74 years. If "desolate" means no people being there, then it would date from year 23 since the Bible does say those who were in Egypt returned to Judea (Jer. 44:14,28).

  But Jeffro. If you are even beginning to suggest that this references 70 years of Babylonian domination while using the current popular timeline, there's nothing I can do about that. The VAT4956 in line 3 and 14 confirm that 511 BCE was the original date for year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar II. So there's no academic choice here. You have to deal with a REAL timeline, and that means where 511 BCE is year 37 of Neb2.

  Further, per the Bible, the "70 weeks" prophecy must begin in the Fall in the 7th month. Period. That fits the work begun in the 1st of Cyrus. So per the Bible, as Martin Anstey recognizes, the 1st of Cyrus should fall in 455 BCE.

  If you disagree with this, then the debate begins as to how reliable the secular records are in regards to the current timeline. But we already know from Greek sources just who and when the timeline was changed. So at some point you need to deal with the conflicts in the history and the timeline, like "The Delian Problem" where Plato is consulted in 430 BCE when he wasn't born until 428 BCE! The timeline where year 18 is dated to 587 BCE is now an academic JOKE, Jeffro. After the timeline was changed so masterfully by Xenophon, the astronomical texts exposed the revisions so had to be destroyed. In desperation, likely Jewish astronomers created "diaries" as a safe place to hide original references to the original timeline. That's why you have coordinated references from 511 BCE for year 37. Funny to me, per the Bible, when 455 BCE dates the 1st of Cyrus, then 511 BCE dates year 37. How is it that the Bible and the VAT4956 .
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  Jeffro

  You're just repeating the same drivel. Plato wasn't consulted about a math problem so that Apollo would end a plague. It doesn't matter what year is assigned to that myth because it didn't happen. Of course, it's not clear on what basis you accept any particular source when you dogmatically claim that you've found the 'real' 'errors', which just happen to coincide with your Messiah delusion.

  You need serious psychiatric evaluation and treatment.
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  Jeffro

  Lars bleated:

  Oh, playing on words like COJ focuses on "for" vs. "at" Babylon.

  Presumably, "COJ" is a reference to Carl Jonsson. I haven't read his book as I prefer to do my own research. However, aside from that, it isn't merely Jonsson who 'claims' that Jeremiah 29:10 should say "for Babylon", as is readily evident by looking at what various translations of the Bible actually say. Most translations of the Bible have "for Babylon" (and some have even more direct wording) that indicates the 70 years to be the period during which Babylon was most powerful. So the reference to 'COJ' is nothing but easily disproved ad hominem.

  Any interpretation of Jeremiah 29:10 that is not consistent with Jeremiah 25:11, 12 can be dismissed anyway, and those verses quite clearly indicate a simple order of events of what happens when the 70 years ended.
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  Jeffro

  Just to clarify, the myth about Plato attempting to solve the 'Delian Problem' is dated to 430BCE, because that is when the Athenian Plague happened. There was never any purpose for Plato to solve a math problem for Apollo in order to stop the plague. Fictitious deities are somewhat unskilled at stopping plagues.
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  Pterist

  Lars **** So per the Bible, as Martin Anstey recognizes, the 1st of Cyrus should fall in 455 BCE*****

  In late 1977 articles began to appear in the general press, as well as in scientific magazines, about a forthcoming book by Robert R. Newton, The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1977), which attempts to prove that the ancient Alexandrian astronomer fabricated much of his observational data and manipulated computations to prove his astronomical theories. What difference does Ptolemy's astronomy make to the readers of MINISTRY? Probably none at all.

  However, Newton's book extrapolates from the main astronomical argument to a necessity for overhauling ancient Babylonian chronology, beginning with 747 B.C., in the period corresponding to the latter part of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Has the dating of a considerable segment of Old Testament history been thrown into doubt?

  Inquiries about this have come in from some who have read a press report, not the book itself, which is almost entirely technical astronomical argument. This press item has been cited by Jehovah's Witnesses in vindication of their own rejection of Ptolemy's chronology.

  They shift Nebuchadnezzar 21 years earlier and so have 2,520 years from his year 19 (his destruction of Jerusalem) to 1914 (their date for God's kingdom). Some who end the 69 weeks in A.D. 30 use Anstey's outmoded (yet recently re printed chronology, which proposes moving Cyrus 82 years later—long after his son Cambyses—so as to begin the weeks at his year 1. Neither shift is possible.

  I would not put $1 dollar on any date with certainty, you are setting yourself up for the same faith as the WBTS by using dates to prove your authority as a Christ (gods only channel) which have failed for them and will for you also.

  Shalom friend.

  https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1978/October/biblical-archeology