by Londo111 16 Replies latest watchtower bible
Lars****they cannot apply the 1335 days correctly to the date of the second coming.****
We can NOT and SHOULD NOT apply any dates to the second coming, Being AWAKE is not setting dates, its leading a Spirit filled life everyday. As Martin Luther called it living his baptism daily, dying to selfish lusts by the empowerment of Christs resurrected life, HE died to give us, to overcome death and sin and evil, that's what being AWAKE is all about Lars !
Shalom friend
Are you telling me that the WT have a problem with basic arithmatic ? I cannot believe it !
And there is them with only 4 million or so less members than the Catholic Church, according to their Math on another thread. LOL
Those start and finish dates for the odd days never did fit, I don't know what they say in that Daniel book, but I remember one explanation from the fifties relied on what was said in a WT or Awake dated early October as a start or finsh time, the details are hazy, but even as a kid I could not swallow that obvious bollocks, and I told my JW father so, he encouraged me to carry on and ignore such silliness, I wish I had not.
Londo,
An caveat is found on page 178 of Daniel's Prophecy: "Counting 2,300 days (6 years, 4 months, and 20 days on the Hebrew calendar) from June 1 or 15, 1938, brings us to October 8 or 22, 1944."
The thing about the internet now is that there are Hebrew calendar converters out there. Here's what I ended up with:
Hebrew calculation: 2 Sivan 5698 - 22 Tishri 5704, which is 6/1/1938 - 10/23/1943
Hebrew calculation: 16 Sivan 5698 - 8 Cheshvan 5704, which is 6/15/1938 - 11/6/1943
I am by no means an expert with the Hebrew calendar, so someone should double-check me. What's baffling me is that 1938 + 6 = 1944, so it would make sense to say that sometime in 1944 was it, but 5698 + 6 = 5704 on the Hebrew calendar, which is only 5 years on the Gregorian calendar.
Its crazy math, that’s for sure! The math is as crazy as the interpretations.
Thanks for posting a link to the other thread. It's amazing how many times the Watchtower has altered all the dates in their eschatology. Maybe in this 21st century they will give up making their loony predictions...
I DO NOT mean to argue in favor of any JW chronology, but I was looking at the first one.
According to the text, the ending date is 6/21/1918 and the start is some unspecified date in December of 1914 - how convenient.
It is true that 1260 days before 6/21/1918 lands you in January 1915, not December 1914.
Back when my eyes were first being opened to the joke that is WBTS chronology and I was still struggling, I pondered one thought. We know now that the earth orbits the sun in 365 days. Actually almost 6 hours more, but let's just go with 365. Any "creator" of the universe would know this so maybe if there was a God, he'd use real years in his "secret" prophecy, not some BS 360 day calendar year. (and Charles Taz Russell also knew the true length of years when he predicted this stuff). So, using real year lengths would mean 1260 days is actually 1277.5 days. Which, if you plug that into eXcel and subtract 1277.5 days from 6/21/1918, you get December 21, 1914. Which is a December date in 1914. Actually, the date of the winter solstice in case anybody wants make that significant and tie it in as a sign that the prophecy is real (and exactly 98 years before the whole Mayan calendar end of the world debacle). Think about it, the winter soltice. From that point on the days start to get longer. The rebirth of the sun (or the "Son"). It all fits!!! LOL!
However, the problem with this is if you're using 365 day years, (or 365.25 day years), then 1914 calculates out to be 35 or 36.75 years later. So any dates in 1914 or 1918 are irrelevant. So who cares about 6/21/1918?
And if you're using actual year spans, that means 1914 moves to either the fall of 1949 (365 day years) or the summer of 1951 (365.25 day years). Probably more specifically, early October 1949 or early July 1951. And not to start a prophecy, but on Oct 4th, 1949, the UN Building in New York was dedicated. Except that's even contrary to prophecy. The times of the gentiles, ie the rule of man, is supposed to be over, Jesus taking his throne, etc., etc. So a new gentile goverment-type-entity innagurating their new facility is hardly an ending.
But hey, if the JWs want to use this concept to stretch out 1914, they can go right ahead. Just tell everybody what website they got it from and give credit where it is due...
Hey, WBTS, I've got another one to stretch out 1914. Since years are really 365 days, you can't have a 360 calendar year after year or eventually everything will be off. Your summer months will be in winter, your winter months in summer, big mess. So every 6 years you've got to throw another month into the calendar. Kind of like we do with leap days. So they inserted the Jewish "leap" month of Adar. So, depending on when you start 7 years, a 7 year span would either have one or two of these Adar months and be either 2550 or 2580 days long. Which would mean 1914 would move to either 1944 (defeat of Germany in WW2) or 1974. Hey, 1974! That's pretty darn close to 6000 years of human existence. Wouldn't that be an appropriate time for God to act? But darn it if those dates have come and gone too. But, if you use 1974, you're only about 40 years into that "generation" thing and you could have a good 30 year run with it...
Please don't flame me. I do not seriously believe in any of this chronology crap. Not anymore at least. But it never fails to fascinate me how people can see relevance in every day occurances and seek out ancient texts to show some correlation. It's like talking to the JFK conspiracy guys who hang out by Dealy Plaza. And it can be very easy to do especially if you play a little loose with exact dates. And I love math and numbers and can easily work up what seems like patterns like these.
If I understand what you are saying, the Society is converting a lunar 3.5 years (1260) to a solar 3.5 years (1277.5)? I suppose Daniel only says, “a time, times, and half of time” and it’s only via Revelation that this gets associated with 1260 days. So perhaps, ignoring Revelation, we can say for that one, “Fair enough.”
I would never flame you. It’s very valuable to hash this out and find any flaw, because even a perceived error will cause a JW to believe we are trying to mislead them, rather than help them. We need all the fact checking we can get.
In that vein, I found I made an error in the second exercise for the 1290. My apologies. I’m not sure where I got 1/18/1919 from, on further research I’ve found 1/25/1919 as to when the Paris Peace Conference proposed the League of Nations.
Therefore, the second exercise should go:
(1) In A1 enter: 1/25/1919
(2) In A2 enter the formula: =A1+1290
However, a straight calculation would end in 8/7/1922. The convention at Cedar Park started 9/5/1922.
Now it we apply the same standard toward as applied to the 1260 days, converting this to a solar period of 3 years and 7 months, it still doesn’t seem to add up, but maybe I’m a bit groggy? Maybe somebody can factcheck me.
Let’s simply this:
(1) In A1 enter: 1/25/1919
(2) In A2 enter: 9/5/1922
(3) In A3 enter: =A2-A1
We get 1319 days.
However, we’ve established the 1260 days are converted to 1277.5 days, therefore to convert the 1290 days one would think that we could take 1277.5 and just a month, say 31 days to be generous. That would be what, 1308.5 days? We are still ten days too short.
Am I missing something?
