WT history is what? 120 years old... The history of Christianity is pushing what? 2,000+ years old ... What I see in my personal experience is that you don't just read the bible, let the bible read you...read it for what it is, listen to it, then this become a seed in you and gives fruit...if you try yo understand, dissect the bible in the flesh, it is impossible, for me it is a spiritual study, I just feed myself with the word, plant it in my heart and mind and suddenly blooms in me and only for my personal benefit, it is truly a river that flows from within me then if I want to share the gospel I give my testimony of how my life changed when I came out of the religion mindset and pursued a personal relationship with Jesus who takes me to The Father. If you read the bible to try to prove or disprove God, or to prove points of view, forget it, the Spirit will not be there, God has an appointed, set time for his plans and purposes, for us right now as believers is to do the commands of Jesus until he comes again. The commands are not many, they are to the point..love God, your neighbor as yourself, do charity, share the gospel with others (which is the gift of salvation not a bunch of magazines and books) remain faithful.
Early church fathers
by Rattigan350 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mP
soonToBe:
mP, googling makes it sound like you are getting the Justin Martyr Jesus/Jupiter stuff from the Zeitgeist movie. That movie has been widely debunked.
mP->SoonToBe:
Z may very well mention that however that does not mean JM did not say that line. Im not interesting in discussing Z nor am i interesting in sweeping statements. Google for the quote you will find it and its from JM.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0126.htm
nd when we say also that the Word , who is the first-birth of God , was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ , our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven , we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.
That quote is taken from JM Apologies...
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mP
soonToBe:
Well, why would Mark keep his name? He's named after Mars. There is even a Gospel with his name on it.
mP:
First of all Mark did not writ ethe gospel, that was another invented story. No where in his book does he name himself or give us any personal information. He prolly was Roman or Greek and he certainly was not a jew as is eviendent in his geoggraphical mistakes and the fact he writes in Greek. Theres a chance he was not even a believer. No hwere does it say he was a believer.
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mP
soon:
He admits no such thing. He is writing an apologetic work during a time of persecution, trying to show that the Christian religion wasn't this evil that the pagans thought should be bloodily stamped out, but was superior.
mP:
What historical proof have you got for xian persecution during the 1st - 2nd century, or are yu taking that honourable always honest RCC at their word ? The same RCC who said Peter died on an upside down cross in the 60s and yet he was still alive to write 1& 2Peter 50 years later. Amazing! -
NeverKnew
What historical proof have you got for xian persecution during the 1st - 2nd century
mP: Maybe I'm misreading you, but when was Acts written? I believe it was in the latter half of the 1st century, wasn't it?
3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. 4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. I'm no scholar but this sounds kinda like persecution to me.
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PSacramento
What historical proof have you got for xian persecution during the 1st - 2nd century
To what degree and extend Christians were persecuted is debated by some scholars.
That there was some persecution is recognised by most.
From Wiki:
Under Nero
Main article: Great Fire of Rome See also: Early centers of Christianity#Rome A Christian Dirce, by Henryk Siemiradzki. A Christian woman is martyred in a re-enactment of the myth of Dirce (murdered by being tied to the horns of a bull), while emperor Nero looks on (central figure).
Evidence from ancient documents suggests that the persecution of Christians by the Roman government did not occur until the reign of Nero. [ 56 ] In 64, a great fire broke out in Rome, destroying portions of the city and economically devastating the Roman population. Tacitus records (Annals 15.44) that Nero was rumored to have ordered the fire himself, and in order to dispel the accusations, accused and savagely punished the already-detested Christians. Suetonius mentions that Christians were killed under Nero's reign, but does not mention anything about the fire (Nero 16.2) [ 60 ] Scholars disagree about whether Christians were persecuted solely under the charge of organized arson or for other general crimes associated with Christianity. [ 56 ] [ 61 ]
Because Tertullian mentions an institutum Neronianum in his apology "To the Nations", scholars also debate the possibility of a creation of a law or decree against the Christians under Nero. However, it has been argued that in context, the institutum Neronianum merely describes the persecutions; it does not provide a legal basis for them. Furthermore, no known writers show knowledge of a law against Christians [ 62 ]
Christian writers claim that the apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul were martyred in Rome during this persecution; the only evidence for this claim is derived from later martyrologies.
Under Domitian
According to some historians, Jews and Christians were heavily persecuted toward the end of Domitian's reign (89-96). [ 63 ] The Book of Revelation, which mentions at least one instance of martyrdom (Rev 2:13; cf. 6:9), is thought by many scholars to have been written during Domitian's reign. [ 64 ] [ 65 ] Eusebius, a scholar of biblical canon, wrote that the social conflict described by Revelation reflects Domitian's organization of excessive and cruel banishments and executions of Christians, but these claims may be exaggerated or false. [ 66 ] Many historians, however, have maintained that there was little or no persecution of Christians during Domitian's time. [ 67 ] [ 68 ] [ 69 ] The lack of consensus by historians about the extent of persecution during the reign of Domitian derives from the fact that while accounts of persecution exist, these accounts are very cursory or their reliability is debated. [ 61 ]
Often, reference is made to the execution of Flavius Clemens, a Roman consul and cousin of the Emperor, and the banishment of his wife, Flavia Domitilla, to the island of Pandateria. Eusebius alleges that Flavia Domitilla was banished because she was a Christian, leading some modern interpreters to suggest the same. However, Dio's account 67.14.1-2) only reports that she, along with many others, was guilty of sympathy for Judaism, [ 70 ] and Suetonis does not mention the exile at all [ 71 ] According to Keresztes, it is far more probable is that they were converts to Judaism who attempted to evade payment of the Fiscus Iudaicus - the tax imposed on all persons who practiced Judaism. (262-265). [ 64 ] In any case, no stories of Christian persecution during Domitian's reign reference any sort of legal ordinances [ 61 ]
Under Trajan
Main article: Pliny the Younger on Christians
Between 109 and 111, Pliny the Younger was sent by the emperor Trajan (r. 98-117) to the province of Bithynia (in Anatolia) as governor, and their correspondence is considered a valuable historical source. In one of his letters (Letter 10.96), he inquires about both the charge against and the punishment for Christians. [ 56 ] While some scholars believe that this inquiry shows that Christians had been persecuted in the past, [ 72 ] others find that this shows they were accused but not persecuted. [ 61 ] Because the letter also raises the question about whether Christians should be persecuted for their rumored terrible deeds they (flagitia) their Christianity itself (Superstitio); there is no scholarly consensus on Pliny's beliefs on the matter. [ 56 ] [ 73 ] The correspondence also shows that Trajan gave no definite rules or laws about the persecution of Christians [ 56 ] and did not wish to seek out Christians or accept anonymous delations. [ 56 ] <Timothy D. Barnes, Chapter 11 ("Persecution") in Tertullian (1971, revised 1985). pp. 145–146.</ref> Many scholars believe that this order was often ignored in the provinces, and Christians were anonymously delated?. The letter also shows that Christians were only tested and forced to perform sacrifices only once they were accused, evidencing the accusatory rather than inquisitory nature of the persecution of Christians before 250. [ 56
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Pterist
The written word in the NT can produce sound or bad doctrines. The living WORD changes lives. The door way is in Christ's death and resurrection and our co-operation in that experience.
Shalom
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Bella15
@ Pterist ... "The written word in the NT can produce sound or bad doctrines. The living WORD changes lives."
exactly!
