Has anyone ever used this to refute a JW's thinking?

by nolongerconfused 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sir82
    sir82

    Winning arguments is not the way to win this "war". As others have indicated - show her that the "new you" is far superior to the "JW you".

    One of the most powerful impressions that can be made on a JW is when they finally realize that "worldly people" are not all evil, sex-crazed, demon-worshipping drug addicts. That the vast majority are at least as decent and moral as the typical JW.

    The place to start is to show her that an "apostate" husband is far more loving, attentive, and stress-free than a JW husband.

  • nolongerconfused
    nolongerconfused

    at Sir82

  • gingerbread
    gingerbread

    Most JW's will freely say "Of course you don't dedicate yourself to an organization. You dedicate yourself to Jehovah and to doing his will."

    AND...." You must admit that Jehovah is now using this organization to do his will on earth. It's not perfect, but it's the best we have." Followed by examples of how people in ancient history remained faithful to God dispite an imperfect ruling system (kings) or religious structure (pharisees / priests). And how the current organization has gone through periods of enlightenment, better understanding and "sifting" of its members.

    If she brings this question to other witnesses or to an elder, they will shoot the argument down in a heart beat! Just be patient.

  • BlindersOff1
    BlindersOff1

    A fully deluded JW can deny ANY and ALL accurate true info .

    Sensible advise is to cool it for now. I know its hard once you know TTATT .

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    Yeah my ex-wife did the same thing- would bring up Bible / Org questions like that and say, "I want to know what you think". She wouldn't give it a rest and later she used it as emotional ammunition to kick me out, that's my take on it.

    Thank her for asking you questions and commend her for wanting to help you...then DON'T GO THERE.

    BTW NoLongerConfused you have a PM.

  • Ding
    Ding
    ....Remember, too, that you have made a dedication to Jehovah God himself, not to a work, a cause, other humans, or an organization..."t

    This quote may seem to be downplaying the organization, but what it really means in Watchtowerspeak is, "No matter how badly the organization or the elders mess up, you have no legitimate excuse for stopping or even slacking off because you made a 100% all-in commitment to God himself."

    In other words, "Obey no matter what you think of the organization or its leaders because it's all a part of the loyalty and endurance test by Jehovah."

    The possibility that the organization is a cult and not "God's organization" at all is not even to cross your mind...

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    The real issue is whether the organization has any legitimacy with God. You can talk about the various doctrines -- like whether man has a spirit or ceases to exist at death, of whether Armageddon will be fulfilled literally or will have a "spiritual" interpretation; or whether baptism is a burial with Christ or a covenant to obey an organization. You can debate them endlessly, but the real question is this: Is the Watchtower Publishing sect a manmade organization or did God legitimize it somehow...and if so, how? Amos said that the Lord God would do nothing, save he revealth his secrets to his servants the prophets (Amos 3:7). If God organized those called the Jehovah's Witnesses into his Kingdom (see Daniel 2), wouldn't he have mentioned it to either the Old or New Testament prophets?

    I'm no anti-JW trying to score a "gotcha." I'm just asking them or any other religion claiming to represent God for a certificate of authenticity. If I showed up at your door and tried to sell you an autograph of Jesus Christ, would you believe me? (If yes, PM me and I'll make you a special offer!) That's all I'm asking the JWs to do. In the days of the first century apostles, there were other competing Christian denominations, right? How could someone know whether a preacher had authority by God? Well, you could say they will teach true doctrines; but did the followers of the false religions think they were teaching false doctrines? No, they thought they were teaching true doctrines, otherwise they wouldn't have become followers. It all depended on point of view, just as it does now. If a JW gets cremed in a car accident and suddenly finds he or she is standing over the paramedics and emergency teams who are working on his or her now lifeless body and there was a bright light overhead, what do you suppose they'd think? Would they rejoice, or would they say, "Oh, sh--. Everything I believed is now dubitable!"

    So just believing in doctrines isn't a sure fire way of determining a true religion. Even if the JWs are correct about death, that still doesn't mean they're right about everything else. After all, many adventist religions believe it. Yet I've heard JWs say, "Well, if it isn't us, who would it be?" (As if other religions didn't have tenable doctrines and a knowledge of history.) Though JWs may satisfy themselves with such logic, it isn't enough for a half dressed guy at the door. Also, I've read that little book they use in their Bible studies, several times, and it's not convincing. While I was participating in such a study, the JWs "teaching" me went from question to question, refusing to move on until I had agreed on a preconceived answer. Anyway, that's my view, and the question of legitimacy is the only real question a JW teacher needs to establish.

    .

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Well said Cold Steel, that is their Achilles Heel.

    Just a question for its own thread perhaps, I understand you are a member of the LDS Church, what makes you think that God views them as legitimate ?

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi nolongerconfused, Would it help to ask your wife simple questions, wait for her response and listen to her, and then ask her more questions like, "What mistake would the Watchtower need to make for you to believe that it is not Jehovah's organization?" and wait for her response. Do not say anything until after she speaks.

    If she says that the Watchtower could never make a mistake, you can show her page 8 of the January 1st 2013 Watchtower that is shown in the thread Whats your opinion of the WTS. apologizing now for its past wrongful teachings ?, ask her what she thinks of that article, and wait for her response and listen to her.

    Just ask simple questions and be prepared to show her something to continue the conversation or ask her if you can ask more questions within a day or two.

    Reading Steve Hassan's books or watching one of his videos like the following video:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw-oF-Z_I7U

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

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