Curious About My Disfellowshipping.
by vajeni82 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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BlindersOff1
If you don't defend yourself or appeal you can be Dfed for ANYTHING 3 elders agree on .
The forum member "flipper" successfully defended himself by appealing . He won .
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Splash
FOI also demands that old records are destroyed when there is no longer a valid reason to keep them.
If the WTBTS or local cong have records of you and you have DA'd, you can request they destroy those records they have of you since they no longer have good reason to keep them, and the information may also be out of date.
Basically they need your permission to keep those records.
Splash.
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vajeni82
Thanks for the feedback. I just can't believe how different congregations handle the same situation.
Just to clear a few things up, I'll give the details surrounding the elders' visit. I was 19, my husband was abusive. It had been reported to the elders and I was basically told to be a better wife. My husband and father (both position holding JWs) had assaulted me after I decided I wanted to leave for a trial separation. They were both arrested & I put restraining orders against them. I had only been out of the battered women's shelter for a few days when the elders came to visit. They knocked on the door and then moved so I couldn't see them through the peephole. When I opened the door they said they need to speak to me and gave me a time to meet them at the KH. I told them I had to work and didn't want to talk yet. I told them I had a letter for them. It was sealed and they did not know what if was for certain. I tried to hand it to them and they said to bring in with me when we met. A week later a friend told me they had announced my DFing on stage at my parents' congregaton.
I was never informed of the actual charges. I never commited to the meeting, so it's not like I stood them up. I can't see how at that point I was seen as needing to be disfellowshiped. The only things I can imagine even being reproved for would be disrespecting my father or husband. Can they really do anything about that? I have a feeling some false accusations were made. I wouldn't be surprised.
It's a small congregation. Maybe 50 people. They didn't really take kindly to faders & are generally pretty quick to dispense "justice". I was not surprised by the way things went. In the end, I got what I wanted, so it's kind of a wash.
Still, I really want to know what exactly I was DF'd for. I might look into getting my file.
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problemaddict
That thread didn't say much.
I am wondering if in the US if one can request their "records" and all written correspondance contained therin without having to request them as a result of discovery for a legal case or something along those lines.
In other words, can you just ask, and legally they have to give you what they have, or is it something considered private they do not have to avail themselves of?
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Pterist
**** That thread didn't say much. ***
Sorry, I was never interested what they had to say about me or whether I was disfellowshipped or not, since I moved overseas, anyways I hope Paul's storey helps. (ex Bethel and founder of JWFACTS.)
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/experiences/personal-files-privacy-act-1988.php
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steve2
I had a similar experience. I wanted to formally withdraw from the organization with no intention of ever trying to verbalize to other JWs - or anyone else for that matter - my doubts about the teachings. I knew that if I remained affiliated with the local congregation, they'd periodically call and inquire about how I was doing. I would have to live a lie and I did not want to.
However, the local body of elders ignored my request, held a JC without me being present and then formally disfellowshipped me for... "apostasy". I heard this not directly from the elders but second hand and I was absolutely stunned. You may recall that was about the time period when Ray Franz and others left Brooklyn Bethel under a cloud of organization-minded disapproval.
That was in 1982. Since then, the organization has gone on a sort of legal charm offensive in order to reduce the likelihood that disfellowshipped individuals will sue for unfair treatment and defamation of character.
You should find lots of relevant information on this forum in answer to your very good question. Among other points, apparently the Watchtower has altered the terminology so that when they formally announce that a named individual is no longer "one of Jehovah's witnesses" (without stating anything publically about the reason(s)) the individual is effectively then treated as if they were disfellowshipped. Consequently, if you pursued the issue say through a lawyer, the Watchtower may even explicitly state that you are now a disassociated person (which to all intents and purposes means you'll be shunned).
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Cold Steel
If the Jehovah's Witnesses aren't of God, then all this talk of disfellowshiping is for naught. If, on the other hand, Jehovah did choose the WT system in 1919 (and didn't tell anyone), then boy oh boy, you guys are in for it! He's going to send Michael in and invisibly take names and kick butt! My point is, without benefits, it really doesn't matter whether you left them or they left you. Technically, though, I'd think they'd have to tell you if they didn't want you to pray or do anything official like represent the group doing things like missionary work and go door to door. One way to tell is just go to church and see if anyone treats you any differently or informs you of your status. By trying to resign, that may be a reasonable cause for disfellowshiping.
On the other hand, if they're concerned about retention, perhaps they'll hope you'll come back. But if they can't produce witnesses of any egregious behavior on your part, they couldn't scripturally take any action. Again, this all presupposes that the Governing Body somehow has apostolic authority from On High. No apostolic authority, no church; no church, no authority to baptize or to interpret the scriptures. As far as I can tell from looking into the history and organizational structure of the organization, there are no scriptures that indicate that the Amos 3:7 scriptural requirement was ever met: " Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." I've read the prophecies, and I can't find one that would fit the Watchtower organization, Charles T. Russell, J. Rutherford or the Governing Body. For example, Isaiah 53 perfectly prophesies of Christ. Isaiah 11 speaks of the Millennium and the gathering of Judah to the holy land (which happened in 1947). Ezekiel 38-39, Zech. 12-14, and Revelation 11 all describe the battle of Armageddon. In other words, one finds prophecy, then one finds fulfillment. Jesus never once said the way to find the true church was by process of elimination or to watch for an invisible return of Jesus. ("Shucks, ah knew it was an i'visible return 'cause me and the wife were alive back then and I can testify that we didn't see a dern thing! So as fer as we was concerned, that was enough! It was a fulfillment of later prophecies.")
BTW, what would happen if someone who was disfellowshiped tried to partake of the sacramental emblems? Would all hell break loose?
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Lied2NoMore
here is my life experience: first time i left, no-one cared, no-one bothered me or came after me. BUT i was never that active.
10 years after inactivity i rejoined, My second entry i went all out, progressed, was regular, became an MS, gave public talks, the whole bit.
almost an elder, then just quit. I am being hounded and followed which has made me paranoid.
I think i fixed that after a sit down with two elders sunday though. I just let them have it verbally. probly gonna get DF'd now
Depends on your level of activity and visibility is how I see it.
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finally awake
I'd be curious too, if I were in your position. I don't know if they'd tell you if you called and asked, but it's worth a shot I guess. I assume I've not been disfellowshipped - but I don't know if I would ever find out if they did. I don't have family in nearby, and most of the local dubs already shun me anyway.