DFing....Human Rights Violation and DEFAMATION of character?

by Terry 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  The International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) states that "any advocacy of ...religious hatred that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility or violence shall be prohibited by law". [10]

  Now read this:

  "The obligation to hate lawlessness also applies to all activity by apostates. Our attitude toward apostates should be that of David, who declared: 'Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.' (Psalm 139:21, 22) Modern-day apostates have made common cause with 'the man of lawlessness,' the clergy of Christendom. (2 Thessalonians 2:3) As loyal Witnesses of Jehovah, we therefore have absolutely nothing in common with them. Being imperfect, our hearts could easily have a tendency toward being critical of our brothers. As individuals, those of 'the faithful and discreet slave' are imperfect humans. (Matthew 24:45-47) But this class is faithful and discreet. Apostates capitalize on errors or seeming mistakes made by brothers who take the lead. Our safety lies in avoiding apostate propaganda as though it were poison, which in fact it is.—Romans 16:17, 18."

  -w92 7/15 p.p. 12-13 par. 19
• 

  Finkelstein

  The Dfing policy and how its implemented in this organization is certainly interesting to say the least and it has unfortunately shown

  to result in grievously dire consequences for some people.

  The organization sees it has a means to distance people out and away, who are not following in line exactly to the designated

  doctrines put out by WTS. Social behaviorism a side, many people have been DFed merely upon being objectionable to specific doctrines.

  These people are also shunned and muzzled from the congregation and even from their own family members.

  This in my opinion is really where the WTS. wipes away and squashes a person's own freedom of expression and human rights.

  Its not surprising that the WTS. uses this policy though toward internal dissidents, since this organization was built upon weakly structured

  bogus doctrines and it has had various points of opposition from outside governments, other religious institutions and a segment of its members. (IBSA)

  Even the first President of the WTS. flew the coup to move onto another Christian based organization.

  The WTS. creates and enforces their own laws concerning an individuals freedom of self expression and that is essential you don't have any.

  They are breaking the law or disregarding the freedoms of ones individual rights of self expression, when one of their members starts

  vocally speaking out about certain doctrines toward their validity. As for as I'm concerned religious organizations should have the rights to self

  expression proportionately equal to a person's individual's rights.
• 

  Band on the Run

  I hate to rain on people's legal parade but I see no human rights violations or defamation of character. There are precise definitions for human rights violations and defamation. Each state and the federal government has its own law setting forth the elements needed to prove the stated cause of action.

  Slander involves damage to reputation and must be measurable. You need concrete injuries. Jehovah's Witnesses disfellowshipping you probably enhances your reputation in your neighborhood.

  Besides, the U.S. Const'n always takes precedence over any other law. Religions are currently considered a very good thing by the current Supreme Court. Madison, Hamilton, and the rest were concerned not to elevate any particular religion or to enmesh the government in any church while maximizing religious freedom. Europe has an increasing sense that freedom from religion is as important as freedom of religion. The battle is fought on different grounds in the United States.

  When you ask for fairness or justice from the law, you are likely to be disappointed. Most Americans are not involved with cults. I know exactly where the posts were coming from only b/c of my personal experience.

  Given the legal barriers, I still see a significant way to win the war against the WT. A public education program aimed at focusing attention on overly controlling groups in general. Emphasis on overreaching, control, and shunning's consequences does not raise First Amendment concerns. People care little about doctrine. Blood, child abuse, overreaching are the things that will turn normal people away from the Witnesses. Indeed, more Bible education also would. Working to have public school students learn critical analysis towards all things would be good for the country as a whole.

  Personally, I find the parodies most convincing. I can't believe after so many years out that the WT is compelling to me. Yet here I am. I wonder if I am still paying tribute to the org.

  There must be more neutral ways to describe the WT other than human rights violator or defamation. Law is confusing. Something simpler in every day terms. Creativity is not my strong suit. I try not to use the word cult with people. Rather, I say that I don't want to use the word "cult," but many of the elements people think of when using the word are present. Next, I list four to five in a single sentence.

  Besides the technicalities, I agree with you completely.
• 

  Terry

  I hate to rain on people's legal parade but I see no human rights violations or defamation of character.

  DF-ing a 14 year old who was kidnapped and raped and DFing her mother isn't a human right's violation? Branding them as "revilers" because Child Protection Services were brought in (and the Elders were arrested for their part in it!) is retribution and not mere "keeping the congregation clearn".

  Just throwing up your hands and "waiting on Jehovah" won't cut it.

  The mother stood up for her child's innocence, reputation and legal rights and the JW committee of Elders stomped on it imperiously.

  There is currently legal action being taken--so, IT CAN BE DONE....you just have to have the moral fiber and backbone to see it.
• 

  villagegirl

  Which is why, Terry, you need to tread softly with the athiest stuff, because its your right to believe as you choose, but these people who come here straight from the KH of being DF are already bleeding to death and they are frightened and filled with "warnings" about demonized people and "terrible apostates" I respect your right to be an athiest Terry, and at the same time you seem to have a caring heart for others.
• 

  metatron

  I think the best chance to defeat the Watchtower lies in two areas: loss of tax exemption and legal liability from publishers, especially in other countries that may allow such victories.

  Europe is suffering and might start looking at tax freeloaders like the Watchtower - who have no organized charitable outreaches to the public.

  I also think that the Society is playing a dangerous game of legal dodgeball, trying to fend off legal challenges all over the world - and they can't depend on US hegemony to save them anymore. Somebody, somewhere is going to go after elders, C.O.'s or even publishers as representatives of the WTS. Australia has led the way!

  And by the way, the Society seems determined to add "dogs" to their insults of dissidents ( Rev. 22).

  metatron
• 

  Finkelstein

  Branding them as "revilers" because Child Protection Services were brought in (and the Elders were arrested for their part in it!) is retribution and not mere "keeping the congregation clean".

  Where and when did this happen Terry ?

  Just curious.
• 

  Terry

  Which is why, Terry, you need to tread softly with the athiest stuff, because its your right to believe as you choose, but these people who come here straight from the KH of being DF are already bleeding to death and they are frightened and filled with "warnings" about demonized people and "terrible apostates" I respect your right to be an athiest Terry, and at the same time you seem to have a caring heart for others.

  You are misinformed.

  I've never been Atheist.
• 

  Terry

  Branding them as "revilers" because Child Protection Services were brought in (and the Elders were arrested for their part in it!) is retribution and not mere "keeping the congregation clean".

  Where and when did this happen Terry ?

  Just curious.

  I don't have permission to say the name of the person. If she wants to reveal her identity that is up to her, however.
• 

  Chaserious

  Let me see if I can sum up this thread thus far:

  1) Terry suggests that actions like labeling people "goats," disfellowshipping announcements in general, declaring that people are going to die at Armageddon, teaching followers to hate apostates, and calling them mentally diseased is not only morally despicable on the part of the Watchtower organization, but also constitute defamation of character and human rights violations from a legal perspective.

  2) Some agree fully.

  3) Others agree with the morally despicable part but point out that these things are not defamation or human rights violations from a legal standpoint.

  4) This having been shown, Terry brings in an entirely new scenario, where now he is talking about children being kidnapped and raped. Even though no one has had the opportunity to respond to this new set of facts, Terry implies that only people like him have the "moral fiber and backbone" to stand up for these victims.

  Is that about the size of it?