by I_love_Jeff 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
The Temple arrangement is over.
What's the difference between passing a plate and constantly telling the friends to give money. ATM machines are just one more shameless ploy for money. How can anyone not be offended? I should copy my notes from the last CO visit about contributing, and the notes from our Local Needs not too long ago. Guess what our local needs were?
First thing they are doing is betraying any claim to pure Christianity they make. Wasn't it a Jewish festival they were referring to in the LIE-ble in that passage? The same one they are comparing to their a$$emblies? If this connection is valid, it would make the a$$emblies Jewish affairs that are improperly labelled Christian.
And yes, they are going beyond the boundaries of decency with financial collections. While they do not pass a collection plate, they hound people to put their valuables in the boxes (which does the same thing). Beyond that, they hand out frequent pledge forms for various projects, along with resolutions to bleed funds out of the local account when they reach a certain level (last I knew, that was 3,000 toilet papers). And now going into debt to finance the religion. My rule is NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IS IT ACCEPTABLE TO GO INTO DEBT TO DONATE FOR YOUR CHURCH OR RELIGION! And I mean never! Donations should never place a person into hardship. If you abide by this rule, then joke-hova (who supposedly owns the wealth, right?) should provide you with a super-abundance so there will be more to donate without going into debt or incurring hardship.
H owever the money changers and their equipment, now automated, received special treatment
I may change my view on this. Though Jesus didn't have a problem with the treasury, he most certainly did with the money changers. (Matt 21:12)
I never equated the provision of credit card machines to that of money changers, but now that I think about, are they the same? Why would Jesus be upset over the service of money changers? Likely because there was some sort of profit involved for the money changers themselves in exchanging foreign currency. What's the difference with credit card machines? WTS doesn't charge a fee for this. However, make no mistake... profit is being made. The credit card companies charge a percentage to WT for this (or, perhaps to the local circuit or district... I'm not sure which). Would Jesus have overturned these credit card tables? Would he view it the same, as goods and services being sold in the temple? I don't know. There's a possibility that he would have.
One minor note... this is not being done in local KHs at this time, only at assemblies and conventions.
Are they seriously quoting a scripture to justify using debit/credit cards for donations?
Not directly, no. The scripture, in context with the letter, is used to support the idea that assemblies and conventions are joyous occasions.
leaving_quietly, if you read between the lines it is saying "Conventions are joyous. Aren't you joyous? You should be so joyous that you are willing to even use your credit card to donate!"
On a side note I would not be surprised if they started using those things you plug into your phone to do credit/debit card transactions so they can start doing it at the KH.
they are legally considered a not-for-profit, and as such main funding comes from voluntary donations.........same as any other church or charitable foundation. only problem is that we are onto the inner workings are are pretty cynical about how/where the funds actually use or go. and the % of dollars that have to be funneled into litigation and settlements should have a realistic cap...but who knows. plus all the real estate holdings and money in tax havens - there are so many things that are okay and legitimate, but really basically unethical. and one would hope that religious organizations would hold to the highest ethical standard, but unfortunately they rank at the bottom of that barrel.
This is interesting. As one who has gone to many different denominational churches throughout my life, I can't say that I've ever heard a sermon on tithing as a requirement for membership - EVER. In fact, the most powerful sermon I think I heard with respect to giving was a sermon on different types of giving that this pastor believed was giving (tithing) in the spirit of Christ. I remember examples of giving included helping someone on the street with extra change, helping a co-worker, friend or family member with a bill, giving time in terms of volunteer work to a charity group. That day, I ripped up my $20.00 check (which is my standard) and re-wrote a check for much more.
I sincerely do not remember EVER hearing a sermon that even suggested that my failure to tithe would banish me to Hades. Correlatively, never do I remember anyone being admonished for failing to give a certain amount of money to the church. Heck, if you don't have it? You don't have it! Conversely, I have heard countless stories of the church providing for people who were in need.
Given the pressure to perform and the comparisons in performance (titles and all), I would NEVER use my credit card for KH, assembly or convention activities.
This makes me wanna show up to a random KH and write a big fat check (so they have my address) after a service and drop it in the donation box. If called and asked about it, I'd say, that's my standard weekly donation. I wonder if I'd be able to get an elder to return and answer some darn questions after THAT! LOL LOL LOL
I heard it from the pastor's mouth; he would not perform marriages, funerals, etc., unless the person was contributing the $50/month/per member the local church had to send to the national organization; couldn't even take communion (Lutheran). Now their parents paid and were members and expected the pastor to do it for free even though their adult child was neither baptized or contributing the $50. Very common here. I guess there are many religions that we don't have contact with and can't know every church's policy.
Another thing to consider....Debit card machines incurr monthly fees from the banks. Who is paying for this? If someone donates $10, they are being misled. Their $10 is not going to be fully invested in the borg and its publishing company. 2-10% will go to the banks, the other "6" of the "666". So... are we being part of the "666" by contributing to their banks via this arrangement at the conventions?
I have decided to not make contributions anymore, I'll keep my $10 and buy a six pack instead
