by Yadirf 95 Replies latest jw friends
I only show some of the holes in rev. It's your bag, not mine. You put your hand in and explain.
You don't know anything about avesta, that's why you can't answer. You only have one track in your mind. You otta broaden out your knowledge a bit. Take off the blinders.
SS
Ok, here is the answer. Jesus' followers whom he called sheep, supposedly go to heaven too, so there would be a whole bunch of sheep all over heaven.
SS
Yadirf barks at the moon:
You’re stupid, DakotaRed.
Stupid am I? And here I am not the one clinging to an Organization that I disagree with. In my book, I would classify that as stupid
I’m not just saying that for the purpose of an insult.No, you are just repeating the Jehovah's Witness mantra.
It’s just the right word for describing your stance at the time.Well, you don't even know my stance. But, when heavily brainwashed, one is liable to strike out blindly and attack whatever they can.
You NEVER catch on to what is being said. The reason being is that your mind is fully prejudiced, in the wrong direction.My mind prejudiced? And yet, you have never answered a single one of my questions! You see, when I was told by elders that it was Satan manipulating those within the congregation to unfairly attack me and I asked the same question, they too could not answer it. Of course, it was flippantly cast off as, "you are undergoing a test of faith." My faith in God has never wavered, but my turst of the org and those morons they assign to oversee it has been fully depleted.
And, the question is still open and unasnwered.
If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?
SS
Where is the website that you located this information about the bible?
The Bible is a two edged sword wield it for evil and it you may get hurt.
Jerome
Which information?
SS
SS
Ok, here is the answer. Jesus' followers whom he called sheep, supposedly go to heaven too, so there would be a whole bunch of sheep all over heaven.THAT'S your answer? Now does that make any sense? According to you ALL of Jesus' followers go to heaven, and so ALL Christians are to become kings that will rule with Jesus over the earth. Want to stick with that?
.
According to you ALL of Jesus' followers go to heaven,
So jesus is supposed to have said.
and so ALL Christians are to become kings that will rule with Jesus over the earth.
It is you who said that. On the other hand, for christians who choose to see it this way, they can make it work. How? Simple. As christians die and go to heaven, they start ruling w jesus at that time. Meanwhile life on earth just keeps going on and on for ages. No armageddon, that was all finished in 70. As more christians get ruling from heaven, life should gradually get better on earth.
Of course, i don't necessarily believe this, i'm just demonstrating to you how your theology could be smoothed out. How god, if he was love, could deal w humanity in a much kinder, gentler way than the wt has theorized.
At any rate, you won't live to see armageddon, even if you live to 120 yrs.
SS
Intellectual acrobatics at its finest. You belong up there w YK, stretching the mind to near breaking point to make sense out of a nondensical theology based on hallucinations of delusional prisoner paranoiac of 2000 yrs ago.
Belong up there “w” YK? Are you actually so lazy that you can’t go ahead and add the “ith”? Guess so!
A “nondensical” theology? What is that supposed to mean?
He, in his turn was influenced by teachings, some originated by a drug taking zeroster.A drug taking “zeroster”? I assume you to be referring to Zoroaster, a Persian prophet?
Why do you ask your readers to go through the painful process of trying to figure out exactly what you’re saying, when it would require much less effort on your part to state clearly what you mean to say?
Yes friday, revelation has copied many ideas, sometimes whole paragraphs from the avesta, which is much older than the nt. But have fun:)So YOU say. But you offer no proof. And shouldn't "avesta" be capitalized? (Avesta)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I only show some of the holes in rev. It's your bag, not mine. You put your hand in and explain.Okay, according to Revelation 14:1 you have a mere SINGLE lamb (that adds up to 1 lamb, SS), and standing WITH him are 144,000 persons. Now if the number 144,000 is NOT literal then why should the 1 lamb be taken as literal?
You don't know anything about avesta, that's why you can't answer. You only have one track in your mind. You otta broaden out your knowledge a bit. Take off the blinders.Am I supposed to feel embarrassed for not knowing anything about this little piece of Mosquito dung -- speculation that you put so much faith in? Does the fact that I haven’t, make me ill informed?
Funny, for everything you say I see that your own words apply to you so well.
Such as, “You only have one track in your mind.” The problem with you is that you never got the sense of the Bible from square one.
And, “You otta broaden out your knowledge a bit.” And so you’re awfully sure that I need to do that? How can you be so certain? Do you know my history of 63 years?
Then, “Take off the blinders.” Do you realize that I’ve been scrutinizing the doctrines of the WTS for 37 years now. How does your years measure up to that?
To Yadirf:
: First off, I hope that you daughter is better and not experiencing much physical pain.
Thanks for your words of concern. She's doing amazingly well and returned to school on Monday, but has to take a prescription pain killer regularly because of the broken ribs.
:: Poor, poor Yadirf. Now I understand why you're so mean and rotten most of the time: you understand that the organization you worship is comprised of men so stupid that they've been deceived by Satan for at least 90 years, whereas we "apostates" see the matter of 1914 clearly, and you're frustrated so you take it out on those who point out the many lunacies in the Watchtower system. It's no wonder you're disfellowshipped, having told the wrong ones among your JW "friends" what you really think. Of course, you're an even worse "apostate" than a lot of us are, because we don't think Satan has deceived the "faithful and discreet slave" -- we know that they've thoroughly deceived themselves, in ways ranging from the 1914 nonsense to actually thinking they've been appointed by God to a position of spiritual authority over everyone else.
: #1) How can it be said that you understand the "matter of 1914 clearly"?
It's simple: the 1914 date is a piece of smoke and mirrors based on ideas invented by John Aquila Brown around 1810, expanded upon by false prognosticators like William Miller beginning a couple of decades later, put to full bloom by the apostate Nelson Barbour, and finally seized upon by that most noteworthy of God's spokesmen, Charles Taze Russell in 1876. Not one thing that Russell predicted for 1914, based on his biblical interpretations, came true. Not one thing that the Watchtower Society has said about "signs of the end" appearing for the first time in 1914, based on its biblical interpretations, is true. Therefore the date is of no signficance, biblically speaking. Note this clearly: the 1914 date is meaningless in terms of Bible prophecy. That is the clear and only proper understanding of it.
: The fact is that you only understand the error partially.
Really. Then please enlighten us lesser mortals as to what wonderful truths about 1914 we have so sadly missed.
: Even that's understandable, because you're father has revealed that much to you ... so that you can be used as his agent for defaming the WTS.
I'm a child of Satan! I'm a child of Satan! I'm a child of Satan! Nyaah nyaah nyaah, nyaah nyaaaaah nyaah!
Big fucking deal.
Oops. Sorry for offending your tender sensibilities. Satan does that to people, You Know.
: #2) Me, "disfellowshipped"? Are you trying to just get a rumor started.
Oops. You put a period after a question instead of a question mark. Naughty, naughty boy! That's so unlike you to fuck up grammar so badly. You're under a lot of stress, aren't you. Understandable. Perhaps you should rest, instead of work your mind here on a board that is as useless as the word "apostate". But then again, I suppose that you find this board therapeutic. Wild, but sick!
: There's no truth to your claim here. Are you deliberately lying, AlanF? Or are you just mixed up?
In past posts you've stated outright that you are a disfellowshipped person. Do you deny this? If so, then provide contact information so that I may verify your status with the congregation that holds your precious Publishers Record Card. Alternatively, give me your name and congregation and I will call the Service Department and verify your status. If you refuse to do this, then readers will understand that I have spoken the truth.
: #3) They were "appointed" by reason of their genuinely wishing to do Jehovah's will. It's as simple as that.
Oh? Do you have a direct line to God so as to verify this appointment? Or is this, rather, yet another product of your fertile imagination watered and seeded by "the faithful and discreet slave"?
:: Your problem, Yadirf, is that you're a fence sitter. You're too cowardly to take a step fully in any direction and take the consequences thereof. You won't continue with the standard JW practice of prostituting your mind to the Society, which would relieve you of all sorts of mental burdens. You're afraid of the consequences of doing so because you've done it before and it eats you up inside. On the other hand you're too cowardly to admit what all on this forum see -- that JW leaders are self-appointed liars who want worship for themselves -- and so you deceive yourself with the hope that eventually those crooked men in Brooklyn will straighten out. You're too cowardly to accept at face value the Bible's practical counsel that "that which is crooked cannot be made straight". Your cowardice is the source of your fear, and your fear breeds the anger that is so evident to all who observe you.
: I'm no "fence sitter", as you claim. The "step" I've taken has been a very brave one, and principled too, rather than "cowardly". I've made my feelings known to the Society,
Prove it.
: and have numerous plans to do so yet.
Ahh! Such as?
: You call that cowardly?
Of course -- if you keep everything to yourself. What do you have to lose then?
: A coward is one that does nothing ... like you, they just "sit".
Oh please. Of all the people on this board, I'm not one you can say that of. A minor example that proves you wrong is the link http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm where roughly 1000 pages of my research are available.
Now, Yadirf, can you produce a link to anything of substance you've produced? Anything beyond that thoroughly "apostate" website you linked to in your first post?
: I have boldly spoken my mind to the WTS.
Sure, and based on the content of your website, it's no wonder they blew you off. In their eyes you're at least as bad an "apostate" as I am. Welcome, buddy!
: But I've not gone to the Kingdom Hall in order to spread my thoughts around, like an apostate would.
Ah! An apostate is one who deliberately spreads truth. Especially when truth contradicts Watchtower teaching.
Don't you realize, Yadirf, how contradictory your own thoughts are here? On the one hand you define "apostate" as anyone who publicly disagrees with the Society. On the other hand you excuse yourself because you've not publicly made your criticisms known. What you've really said here is exactly what a typical braindead JW would -- that an "apostate" is anyone who contradicts Watchtower teaching -- except that you've exempted yourself from this definition by mental processes I cannot fathom.
: You charge "JW leaders" with having lied,
Far more than that: I have personally proved to the world that JW leaders have lied hundreds of times in their printed literature.
: yet you've lied yourself right here in this post of yours.
You have yet to prove that.
: How about that, the pot callin' the kettle black!
Mere words without practical substance.
: Did you, or did you not, lie when you said that I am a disfellowshipped person?
I did not lie. You yourself have intimated that you're DF'd. Perhaps you meant that you're considered "disassociated", but that's a distinction without a difference. You can easily clear this up by giving appropriate references.
If you don't like this line of thought, then why don't you just come clean and show clearly and for the record what you're about? And of course, provide verifiable proof for your claims.
What? You object to providing verifiable claims? You want me to put my money where my mouth is? Here you are. My contact info is:
Alan Feuerbacher
2637 Moore Lane
Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-206-1555
And yeah, I'm in the phone book.
Now, Yadirf, I challenge you to provide similar information about yourself. Readers will see instantly who is a truthful person and who is a coward. Your choice.
: You're so very funny it hurts. You quote scripture and apply it to me, when you don't even believe in Scripture.
So? One doesn't need to believe in nonsense when quoting nonsense back at someone who believes in it. If they balk, they're mere hypocrites. Is that what you are?
:: Why not just bite the bullet and admit that JW leaders are a spiritually corrupt group that will never change short of the deaths of those who comprise it? Do you really think that God would want to use men for any good purpose who are so full of themselves that they refuse to listen to counsel from outside their own insular, ivory-tower little cadre? You know very well that Watchtower publications are full of deceptions, often deliberate and outright, and all with the full approval and imprimateur of the Governing Body. Do you honestly think that God would ever approve of men who have made a career of deceiving themselves and others?
: That's imprimatur, Alan, not "imprimateur". That's so unlike you to misspell words...
See above.
:: Your notion that Daniel 11 will somehow be fulfilled upon the JW organization is purely wishful thinking. It has as much foundation as the claim of JW leaders to comprise a "faithful and discreet slave". These men are masters of declaring the righteous wicked and the wicked among them righteous. According to the Bible God hates such men. How is it that you refuse to see this?
: My "notion" regarding Daniel 11:35 is particularly something that I know about and understand quite clearly.
Aha! Just like C. T. Russell knew about and understood clearly that the Great Pyramid of Gizeh proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Armageddon began in 1874, and that Christ's "presence" began in 1874, and that 6,000 years of human history ran out in 1873, and ... and ... and...
And of course, we have the multitudinous publications of braindead endtimes proclaimers such as Hal Lindsey to further enlighten us on the course of human history.
: Are you here to tell me that you know how to interpret it?
Well, in view of clear statements such as "the king will actually do according to his own will, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god" and "the thing decided upon must be done" and "the ground he will apportion out for a price" and so forth, I can interpret Daniel as well as anyone.
: Someone that doesn't even believe in the Bible knows the correct interpretation over a person that does? You're not being reasonable, Alan.
The correct interpretation of nonsense is: nonsense.
You can interpret all you want for the future. The fact is that not a single thing that was predicted for the past, based upon interpretations of Daniel or any other Bible book, has come to pass. Not a single thing. The Book of Daniel is chock full of thoroughly ambiguous nonsense, nothing of which has come to pass as any number of interpreters have predicted.
:: Your posts are full of hatred and vitriol. You're no more a Christian than you are a rocket scientist. Probably less. You'd like to be a Christian but the indignities you've suffered at the hands of the JW organization have warped your thinking so badly that you can't recognize that they've beaten you to a pulp, spiritually speaking. Really, Yadirf, your relationship with the Society is that of a beaten wife toward her abusive husband.
:: Wake up, Yadirf!
: Can you show me where God said to love what is bad?
Of course not. But that's irrelevant in this thread.
: Apostates, that is, what apostates stand for is BAD.
Run that by me again?
"Apostates" -- me included -- tend to stand for truth. That is proved by the simple fact that not a single JW defender can stand against a knowledgeable "apostate" -- and of course, by "apostate" I mean "critic" -- without resorting to all manner of lying subterfuge. Jehovah's Witnesses are rapidly becoming THE stereotypical braindead cult organization. Why? Because that's exactly what they are, and in time news media get hold of unusual stories and print them.
: Yet, I've never said that you apostates positively won't make it into God's Kingdom. So, why is it that you call me a hateful person.
Because you spout hateful words.
: Have you ever read the replies to my posts?
Of course. This is just one example of one of us "vile apostates" doing so.
: I've never heard you label such ones hateful, as you have just done with reference to me.
So?
: You're a little lopsided, aren't you Alan?
:: Why? Because some people who respond to you make mistakes and I don't criticize them? There is so much traffic on this board, and I have enough other important idels, to deal with, that I (and certainly plenty of other critics) can't possibly deal with every post. Therefore it often accomplishes little to say anything.
: One of your problems, Yadirf, is that you, like other JWs who have undergone the same training, are supremely confident that you've been given spiritual "weapons" that cannot fail. In this you're like Kamikaze pilots. But they failed and the JW organization will fail, and for nearly identical reasons.
My words stand.
AlanF
ME - According to you ALL of Jesus' followers go to heaven,
You - So jesus is supposed to have said.
Me – No he didn’t.
Me - and so ALL Christians are to become kings that will rule with Jesus over the earth.
You - It is you who said that.
Me – But why DID I say that? Don’t you think that there is a correlation between Revelation 14:1 and Revelation 20:6? Who are those mentioned in the latter that are to “rule as kings” with Christ?
You - On the other hand, for christians who choose to see it this way, they can make it work. How? Simple. As christians die and go to heaven, they start ruling w jesus at that time. Meanwhile life on earth just keeps going on and on for ages. No armageddon, that was all finished in 70. As more christians get ruling from heaven, life should gradually get better on earth.
Me - Okay, I’m starting to get used to your use of “w”. Gotcha! You lazy apostate so-and-so!
Die, go to heaven, and start ruling over who at “that time”?
No “armageddon”? Just scratch the word from the Bible, eh?
You - Of course, i don't necessarily believe this, i'm just demonstrating to you how your theology could be smoothed out.
Me – So, you would recommend to me something that you yourself don’t even believe in. Makes PERFECT sense!
You - How god, if he was love, could deal w humanity in a much kinder, gentler way than the wt has theorized.
Me – Listen to this all you lurkers, SS thinks he’s a teacher - - yet he hasn’t even gotten to first base, being the avowed atheist that he is. Isn’t it amazing how brilliant those are who do not believe in God. (Forgive me SS, if I’m mistaken about you being an atheist. I’m going on memory, and sometimes I have a problem keeping all the posters on this board separated. You are an atheist, are you not?)
You - At any rate, you won't live to see armageddon, even if you live to 120 yrs.[/quote]
Oh, I see. So now you’re into forecasting the future? Crazy man, coo-ray-zie!
Yadirf or Lefty
