Wanted - A 'Reverse Witness'

by The Song Remains The Same 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi The Song Remains The Same, I like your idea for those JWs who do not want to fade, but probably few would volunteer to do reverse witnessing. You will be more successful with your wife if she does not feel that you oppose her becoming a JW.

    Have you thought of other options. What does your wife like to do? Plan outings with your wife where your wife can meet other non-JWs, who she may have common interests. If you have not read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping People to Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), you should read his books, visit his website, and watch his videos on his website. You do have a lot of options.

    Just go slowly and encourage your wife to explore and use multple sources to research her interests. Does your wife know how to use the internet to search for things that interest her?

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • extractor
    extractor

    The before-mentioned Steve Hassan really promotes talking about OTHER groups that have similar practices. That way she might consider the problems without the mental walls going up. Like...

    "You know, I heard Scientology leaders have their followers install software on their computers that block everything about Scientology on the internet... why do you think they do that?" Create scenarios where she formulates the answers in her own head. The next time the WTS rants about avoiding the internet it might give her pause.

    "Hey, I was just reading about the Mormons. Did you know their leaders claim to be God's modern-day prophet? I also didn't know they claim to be the only true religion did you?... the members even call their religion "The Truth"! Wow, that's interesting."

    Do it more artifully than I just did and DON'T follow it up with "JUST LIKE THE JWs!!!" It's up to you to innocently phrase the question so she makes the connection herself. Oh, & you have to do it in a way she can't figure out what you're doing. Good luck.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I feel for you guys. I concur with others that the "reverse witness" would not work. I attend services on occassion, and the meetings are so controlled (and the members so self-monitored), there is barely a moment to be natural and off-guard.

    The last time I listened to Hassan he made a couple points that will help me, frankly. First of all, make your goal broader than "get them out of the Witnesses". Instead, how about, "I want a partner who is independent of mind and can think for him/her self." The other point was to spend more time listening than scoring points. For instance, ask a question out loud and let the silence hang. Don't fill it. Let their little marbles roll around in there.

    If it comes to baptism, I hope both of you would consider going. Bring a camera, and be "happy" for your partner. Go for dinner afterwards. The love-bombing ends at baptism, as the Witnessing hours can no longer be counted. I think having you at their side, thick and thin, will contrast sharply against the cooling ardour of the Witnesses, and will hopefully give them permission to make a graceful exit if it is not as wonderful as they thought.

  • krejames
    krejames

    I agree with the subtle appoach.

    Also advice to everyone: Blood policy is probably not the strongest argument these days. There are many non JWs and ex-JWs would refuse blood. The US army has been pioneering non blood surgery for the battlefield and there are numerous hospitals now that specialise in non-blood surgery. Here in the UK we get news stories every 3 or 4 years showing the results of studies that have found JWs to recovery quicker after heart surgery, cancer surgery etc. Yes the JW will be ready for your argument and will have plenty of secular evidence to back up and "prove" the witnesses were right all along.

    If you must talkk about blood its probably better to concentrate in the flip flops over blood fractions etc rather than the "JWs would rather die than have a life saving blood transfusion" argument.

  • The Song Remains The Same
    The Song Remains The Same

    Thanks for the good advice everyone. Much appreciated. I am going to 'go silent' at home on the whole JW topic completely for a period as it's stressing me out so much and even starting to have phyiscal symptoms :-(. They have some CO visit, the 'memorial' (now un-branded as was pointed out elsewhere!) so I'll just smile and nod as she arranges to go get happyfied several times in the next weeks.

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    Just throwing it out there as you probably would know what would work best with your mate. Just have patience and the race belongs to the slow and steady.

    Things that a person needs to be able to do to get out of a High Control Group.

    Think Critically AKA Critical Thinking. It's not just a pase comment, it is a learned ability with routines to follow for it to be done correctly. I would learn some pointers myself (see youtube Qualisoup user account etc for videos on how to learn it) and then share the thought that all major purchases such as a house, car, insurance, etc require that we think critically and remain unbiased to truly make an educated choice, why would selection of a religion be taken any less seriously? Actually point out since a persons life (blood issue) is at stake, it should be taken more seriously.

    The Jws and other Cults will always try to supercede the family member (that is trying to get them to wake up) to the punch by putting the phobia into their minds about "Satan will use family and friends to prevent you from attending meetings and having your bible study to prevent you from learning the truth" And when this actualy happens, they feel that the JWs MUST have the truth, since it happened that way. Now the person thinks that Satan is using you, without your knowledge of course.

    So my idea would be to supercede that little game plan, if possible stating that Mormons, Scientologist, ( or what ever group you think, she thinks is a Cult) tell their new studies that if family and or friends try to stop them from progressing, it is Satan causing this to happen. Basically showing her that groups SHE considers a cult are doing the same thing the JWs are doing. Then let that percolate a bit. Then ask, Why would Satan allow family members of a person studying Mormonism, try to prevent them from being drawn into that cult? You should be able to find some online references to these tactics used by other cults.

    I would also bring out that these other groups do not like it when the potential member researches the history of the organization, as they know that looking into their past will usually prevent their student from progressing. These group leaders many times EXPRESSLY forbid the members from reading information from previous members, even under penalty of being kicked out of the group. Why would this be true?

    A Mormon Apostle J. Rueban Clark said "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation, If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed"

    Here is the first video in a series that a Mormon made that shows how he was able to get out of the group using critical thinking skills. There are 6 in total.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrZkzLANdJU&list=PLCE83E900784110A0

    Another point I made with my wife was posed through the following question " Why would a God who wants all to be saved allow his one and only true religion to make numerous failed predictions for over 100 years and allow this information to be recorded and made available for all "truth seekers" to find this historical information and make an informed decision that a God would not be backing let alone supplying erroneous information to these truth seekers" The Jws will tell her that Proverbs 4:18 explains away all the previous errors in doctrine as "new light" or that the light gets brighter. Ask her if Proverbs 4:18 was a prophecy being fullfilled by the JWs and it was being done by God providing wrong information over the years.

    I would then ask her if EVERYTHING currently being taught was the truth and that nothing doctrinally would ever be changed again. IF not, then they are basically admitting that there is the potential for something being taught now, that is not true, just has been the case over the years regarding changed doctrines.

    Sorry for all the rambling but felt that you might be able to get some reasoning points out of some of it for future recall.

    NJY

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    Song, the advice someone gave you here ( forgot the poster) about asking your wife what would she do if you were to become involved in a cult? I asked my husband that question the other night and the conversation went on much longer than I ever expeced. He said he would do what I did, research try to tell me about the cult, etc. Eventually he had problems and got defensive when I asked about "reading non approved sourses and talking with a former member to get a perspective". But overall it did go well.

    So just FYI.

    I am also trying to remain silent on the JW, have been for a while. I do bring up things about my own religion or other religions sometimes other cults. Once they go to the Memorial I am sure they will be motivted and glassy eyed. I am dreading that so much. I feel for you, and know how it feels to have it affect your health.

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    Maybe I could be your long distance "reverse witness"?

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