Why a day behind Passover? Weren't the apostles celebrating Passover?

by wha happened? 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Larsinger58

  ST GEORGE:

  Finally, Numbers 33:3 shows clearly that the Passover was on the 15th of the month, NOT the 14th.

  George

  LARS:

  Glad you mentioned this. This is not correct! Indeed, the Jews (Isrealities) left Egypt on the 15th, but that was because it was after midnight. When the Israelites first left Egypt, they were on the Egyptian calendar which changes the date as we do, at midnight. So it was still Nisan 14th from Sundown to Midnight, which is when they ate the passover meal. Later, some also changed the date at sunset, in which case you would be correct, that the Israelites did celebrate passover on the 15th!!

  Per Exodus 12, the 7 days of undermented cakes do begin on the 14th, in the evening, which means it is still the 14th after sundown. But the angel of death did come at midnight and the Israelites left shortly after midnight so when the date changed at midnight from the 14th to the 15th, it notes they left on the 15th.

  Not understanding that the Israelites were following the Egyptians by changing the CALENDAR DATE at midnight is a cause for some confusion.

  The only other important point is whether the passover meal ended at midnight or not. It does! So the passover meal is definitely eaten on the 14th and not the 15th, only the date changes at midnight. So in that way, the same night the Israelites leave while still being the same night they eat passover, occurs on two different calendar days.

  But here is something else interesting. The WTS in their ignorance, will look at a Jewish calendar and see that Passover is always listed on the 15th. But when the Jews list a holiday on the main day, like the 15th, they actually celebrate that event starting the previous day. So even though, for instance, they will show a Saturday as the sabbath, the sabbath actually begins for them that previous Friday after Sunset. So they don't wait until after sunset on the 15th to celebrate the Seder, they celebrate it the previous day when that day begins after sunset. So the Jews do celebrate the passover correctly.

  But really, partaking might be considered as "apostate" now since if Christ arrived in either 1914 (607 BCE), 1934 (587 BCE) or 1992 (529 BCE), then the celebration should have ended after that year. The MEMORIAL of Christ's sacrifice was to be continued until his return. After that, it is discontinued! So it is a totally MEANINGLESS event as far as Jehovah and Christ is concerned. Why are they still commorating when he left if he supposed returned, whenever?
• 

  leaving_quietly

  They probably use something like this:

  http://www.calendar-365.com/moon/moon-calendar.html

  Or, perhaps this:

  http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=110&month=3&year=2013&obj=moon&afl=-11&day=1
• 

  Quendi

  An important piece of information to keep in mind with regard to the full moon is that this can occur anywhere from thirteen to sixteen days after the new moon. That is because the Moon’s orbit around the Earth is not a circle but an ellipse. Furthermore, this ellipse “precesses” because the Earth is not a perfect sphere. This precession will affect the timing for all of the phases the Moon will display during its orbit.

  So when the Memorial is observed, the Moon may be full or it may not. The celebration may fall before or after the full phase. The Bible simply says that the fourteenth day of the month Nisan is when the Passover should be celebrated. The WTS is following the lead of the quartodecimans (“fourteenthers”) of the fourth century who held the Lord’s Evening Meal on 14 Nisan. And as others have pointed out, a Watchtower article published in 1976 gives instructions for Witnesses as to how the Governing Body determines the date of the Memorial observance.

  As far as I’m concerned, the whole celebration is pointless. 1 Corinthians 11:26 reads, “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives.” The WTS maintains that the Lord arrived in 1914. If that is so, then there should be no further Memorial observances. The Witnesses I’ve read this scripture to grow distinctly uncomfortable upon hearing those words.

  Quendi
• 

  Larsinger58

  QUENTI:

  As far as I’m concerned, the whole celebration is pointless. 1 Corinthians 11:26 reads, “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he arrives.” The WTS maintains that the Lord arrived in 1914. If that is so, then there should be no further Memorial observances. The Witnesses I’ve read this scripture to grow distinctly uncomfortable upon hearing those words.

  Quendi

  LARS:

  Exactly! It's a technical farse!
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  "So if, in the future, any of Jehovah’s people should be out of touch with the governing body, they could determine the Memorial date with fair accuracy from local calendars that show the first full moon after the spring equinox." - WT 1976 2/1 page 72/73

  ADCMS: Oh the horror of it ! How could I ever get along without them? I might have to actually think for myself.

  I just got a cold shiver.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  http://www.contactplus.com/products/webcal/samples2/wc201303.html

  Christ did away with the law, so does a specific date really matter? I think you can celebrate anytime, anywhere. Your motivation counts more that when and whether or not you have Kosher wine or bread, IMO. The whole date issue is confusing to me. I celebrated on my own last night after sundown. Was I wrong? Does it matter?
• 

  Newly Enlightened

  Does beer & pretzels count as long as they're kosher?
• 

  DATA-DOG

  LOL!! Beer isn't a product of the vine. Wine is..
• 

  Sulla

  The WTS is following the lead of the quartodecimans (“fourteenthers”) of the fourth century who held the Lord’s Evening Meal on 14 Nisan.

  Almost, Quendi. The 14th-ers controversy actually has its roots in the disagreement between the synoptic gospels and the churches that followed St. John's gospel -- mostly in Asia-minor. The synoptics seem to insist that the Last Supper was a Passover meal and was, thus, celebrated on Nisan 15. The churches following the gospel of John would, of course, insist that Christ was killed at the same time that the Passover lambs were being slaughtered -- the afternoon immediately prior to Passover: Nisan 14.

  For these churches, the Last Supper was not a Passover meal; Jesus was himself the Passover. So, different dates. An echo of this can be found in the Orthodox practice of celebrating Mass with leavened bread, as opposed to the Catholic practice of using unleavened bread. The Orthodox are pretty sure that the Gospel of John is correct. I happen to agree with them, as it happens.

  So, proving the adage about blind squirrels, the JWs -- who are illiterate and think the Passover is on Nisan 14 -- actually manage to get the timing of the Last Supper correct.
• 

  TD

  .....who are illiterate and think the Passover is on Nisan 14

  Yes. It wouldn't be so irritating if they could just be open and upfront about why they celebrate Memorial when they do. But they don't appear to even know, so they pretend to know more about the timing of Passover than Judaism does instead.