Trinity, Immortality of the soul, Hell fire... Homosexuality

by irondork 42 Replies latest jw friends

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  irondork

  Most people here who have spent any amount of time studying the bible will agree that the bible allows for more than one interpretation of these topics. Well, the first three topics, anyways.

  Reading the gay marriage discussions on this board I see a common thread weaving its way through: NO acknowledgement whatsoever that there is an equally valid interpretation of the bible that DOES NOT condemn homosexuality.

  Once in a while I will see the word TRINITY mentioned on this forum and no big deal is made of it (for the most part). Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian teachings are accepted as variations of the Christian understanding of the bible without any judgment being made regarding the genuineness of that person's Christian identity or relationship with God.

  Mention the word HOMOSEXUALITY, and there is a huge difference in attitude. A clear black line - even among those who take a more "live-and-let-live" approach to the subject. There is no acknowledgement of a variation in a Christian's understanding of the bible. Rather, it is presented as an indisputable fact that the bible condemns homosexuality and that's that, have a nice day... but live your life the way you want because... who cares what the bible says.

  Folks, whether you ultimately conclude the bible allows for Christ-centered, same-sex relationships or not, taking just a little time to do more than a cursory examination of the so-called "clobber passages", the scriptures that supposedly make it SOOooo obvious that homosexuality is condemned by God, you will find that the traditional interpretations are not as firmly based as you think.

  If nothing else, you will walk away with a respect for GAY CHRISTIANS - whose relationships with God are just as valid as those who do or do not believe in the trinity.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243651/1/The-sin-of-Sodom-and-Gomorrah-What-does-the-bible-REALLY-teach

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243779/1/Do-not-lie-with-a-male-as-with-a-female-What-does-the-bible-REALLY-teach

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243858/1/God-gave-them-up-to-disgraceful-sexual-appetites-What-does-the-bible-REALLY-teach

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/243959/1/ARSENOKOITAIS-men-who-lie-with-men-What-does-the-bible-REALLY-teach
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  Phizzy

  I agree Irondork, I did a great deal of research a while ago spurred on by the info.you have kindly linked above. I came to the conclusion that I am on solid ground when stating :

  The Bible neither condemns homosexuality or homosexual relationships.

  I have begun to not take part on many threads now out of frustration, we seem to have a good number on here who are too lazy to even read the thread, and certainly too lazy to research, and yet they like to pontificate about various matters.

  It strikes me that many on here still suffer from the JW mind-set of not thinking for themselves, and not gleaning any information for themselves.

  One of the great points made in those articles is: The Bible cannot mean now what it did not mean then.
• 

  irondork

  I have begun to not take part on many threads now out of frustration, we seem to have a good number on here who are too lazy to even read the thread, and certainly too lazy to research, and yet they like to pontificate about various matters.

  I'm too frustrated to participate also. It's like trying to have a conversation about sailing around the world with someone who thinks the earth is flat... and refuses to crack open a book. You just have to walk away.

  There is tons of information on the bookshelves about this subject. I quoted from only two books in the threads above. My personal opinion is that they provided the most logical explanation of the scriptures while remaining true TO the scriptures - they didn't try to deconstruct the validity of the bible to make their point. (I found one book that did try to invalidate the bible and a couple other books that had some pretty sloppy reasoning - IMO.) Like any other bible topic, there is not 100% agreement on every last detail in the pro-homosexuality understanding of the bible. But the main points do seem to be agreed upon by those who feel the bible does support Christ-centered, same-sex unions.
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  unstopableravens

  hi iron, i think we have had good conversation in times past, i think the bible tells us what is needed for salvation and to be in gods kingdom, the trinity topic is always hard because the wt misstated it at time, the bible says a person needs to believe jesus is lord(romans 10:9) and jesus said you must believe he is god(john 8:24)i am(exodus 3:14) though i believe in hellfire i dont believe that believing in it is a salvation issue, and having a full understanding of gods nature is(1 tim 3:15,16) but we must believe jesus is god,as far a homosexuality i believe when a person is born again they can not "practice" sin(1 john 5:18)(1 john 3:9;10) and i think that includeds all those things mentioned at 1 cor 6:9;10. homosexual is just one of many not more or less sin: just my thoughts, but yes like i said in the past i wish ppl would see homo is not worse than fornication its all same catogory in gods eyes
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  Phizzy

  I rest my case.
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  unstopableravens

  it goes both ways
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  Phizzy

  You obviously have not read the links provided by Irondork, so you have not presented any case to rest.

  My post was about people like you. Please be polite enough to read the argument presented, then if you disagree fair enough, if you offer good reasons.

  But to simply post an opinion without reading the evidence laid before you is just silly, and adds nothing to this place.
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  gma-tired2

  Irondork, my son, not on this site, has also done a lot of bible research and has come to the same understanding about homosexuality. BTW he has changed his pic on facebook to the same as your avatar. The Equal sign. Love it. Just want to give you my support.
• 

  *lost*

  irondork - excellent information. I have started to read it and I have found it very informative as a reasonable debate. People tend to focus to much on the unimportant things, rather than the importance of the message. People believe what they are brought up to believe, or choose to believe, it is only by education and socialisation to make it possible to change mind-sets.

  At the end of the day it is irrelevent what someone believes, or thinks, each person should live their own life how they choose to, not how they are told/forced to by threats of punishment etc. Everybody has the right to live a happy life and feel safe and loved in their life. And that means EVERYONE irrelevent of age, race, religion, nationality, sex, and i certainly think a persons sexual preferences are nobody elses business. People need to focus on their own lives, not others.

  That's the importance of the message they are forgetting, getting wrapped up in laws and rules and regulations. Jesus kept it simple. men have complicated everything, power and control is the driving force.We all face judgement/the grave oneday. It is not for man to judge, he has been giving no power to represent God.

  I used to hold the 'christian'view of being gay etc. Now I don't, it's none of my business. I'm still christian, i still believe. People need to realise healthy debate is good for informing and breaking down barriers. What matters is treating another human being as you would yourself want to be treated. kindness.

  I found your post very informative and enjoyed reaading up on the Biblical side of it. It was great. Thank you.

  lost
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  unstopableravens

  phizzy: well it seems as if you did not read the links, if you had you would see all my comments when the topic was started, so maybe your comment is about you!