EASTER QUIZ: Where is the missing prophecy Jesus fulfilled?

by Terry 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Note the 'satisfying' answer the Watch Tower Society gives in The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived...

    *** gt chap. 42 Jesus Rebukes the Pharisees ***
    Explaining what he means, Jesus continues: “Just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” After being swallowed by the fish, Jonah came out as if resurrected, so Jesus is foretelling that he will die and on the third day will be raised alive. Yet, the Jewish leaders, even when Jesus later is resurrected, reject “the sign of Jonah.”

    While there is some leeway for three days to 'really' mean 'rising' on the third day (See The Watchtower, 1 December 1958, p. 736), that latitude is not granted when specifying 'three days and three nights'. Allowing for 'part-days', 'three days and three nights' requires at least 60 hours and some number of minutes, whereas the myth about Jesus' resurrection in JW land has him in the tomb less than 50 hours.

    The fact that it's a blatant contradiction doesn't seem to matter in JW land. Of course, they're really in good company with other Christians, who also have licence to make up anything that seems to fit at the time.

  • ssn587
    ssn587

    I Believe in Bible Bullshit 3:19,; 4:4; and 9:56 you will find the answers, or they will make them up out the The Book Governing Body Baloney chapter 144000 verse 8.

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    I guess if you went back to the 1st century, when there were no chapters & verses marked in the scriptures at all, and everything was written on rolled-up animal skins that probably only 1% of the population could read anyway; it could be difficult to find that scriptural reference you were looking for... and the Gospel writers weren't writing a biography or factual history- they were making their own theological statement about what Jesus meant to them- so it was more important that the written words looked right, rather than being right/correct/well researched.

  • PSacramento
  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Another "Easter Quiz" answer.

    Concerning being 'raised on the third day according to the Scriptures' (1 Cor. 15:4), here are some comments from the BECNT-1 Corinthians commentary (D. E. Garland, pp.685, 687).

    On the phrase, "according to the Scriptures":

    The phrase "according to the Scriptures" (see Matt. 21:42; Mark 12:24; Luke 24:32; Rom. 1:2; 15:4) affirms in shorthand that Christ's death was "according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23). . . Paul does not necessarily have in mind a particular passage, such as Isa. 52:13 - 53:12 (cf. Rom. 4:25; 1 Pet. 2:22 - 25).

    On the phrase, "on the third day":

    Hosea 6:2, which speaks of the national revival of Israel, is thought by many to be an obvious allusion. This text is never cited elsewhere in the NT, however. . . The scriptural connection possibly derives from a slew of texts that link "the third day" with the day of salvation and divine manifestation (Gen. 22:4; 42:18; Exod. 19:11, 16; Josh. 3:2; Hos. 6:2; Jon 1:17 [2:1 MT]).

    Ding:

    Good reference from Lev. 23 for the Law's foreshadowing that aspect! Even the BECNT did not have that reference. (Mine does now, thanks to you.)

    On Matthew's reference to Jesus being 'called a Nazarene' ("he will be called a Nazarene," Mt 2:23), the NICNT-Matthew commentary (R. T. France, pp. 94 - 5) has some interesting thoughts about what Matthew may have meant. After mentioning all the possible ties to specific OT prophecies, all of which have serious problems, he says:

    The most promising approach 20 paradoxically takes its cue from the very nonexistence of Nazareth in the OT - it is a scriptural nonentity. For someone to be "called a Nazorean," especially in connection with a messianic claim, was therefore to invite ridicule: the name is in itself a term of dismissal if not of actual abuse. We see precisely this reaction in Nethanael's response to Phillip's suggestion of a Messiah from Nazareth, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" (John 1:46; cf. John 7:41 - 42, 52 for Judean scorn for the idea of a Messiah from Galilee). If Nethanael, a native of Cana only a few miles from Nazareth, reacted like that, what must have been the response in Judea, where most people had probably never heard of Nazareth? On this understanding it is not only the word Nazoraios which conveys Matthew's message, but also more specifically the verb "He shall be called" [Note the future tense of the verb. - Bobcat]: this is about derogatory name-calling. In [Matt.] 26:71 (the only other occurrence of Nazoraios in Matthew) we shall see the term used in just this way by a speaker in Jerusalem.

    But where in the prophets could such an idea of the Messiah be found? Alongside the (probably dominant) royal strand of prophecy which Matthew has already tapped in 2:5 - 6 and which was the source of his apologetic problem in claiming a Messiah from Galilee not from Bethlehem, there is a less prominent but nonetheless significant expectation of a Messiah who would be unrecognized and who would not be taken seriously by his people. The series of messianic portraits which appear in Zech 9 - 14 begin (9:9 - 10) with a royal figure who is also unexpectedly humble and is described as "vindicated and saved," but then go on to speak of the shepherd whose authority is not accepted by his sheep (11:4 - 14) and of one who is pierced by the people of Jerusalem (12:10) and struck down by the sword of God (13:7). A similar impression would be gained from some of the psalms of the "righteous sufferer" (especially Pss 22, 69) insofar as these were understood to have messianic implications. The theme of nonrecognition and disdain is most clearly developed in the account of God's "servant" in Isa. 52:13 - 53:12, most prominently in 53:1 - 3, which speaks of the unimpressive appearance of the servant and the incredulity of the people, leading to his being "despised and rejected" and "held of no account" (cf. also Isa. 49:7, "one deeply despised"). The imagery of the servant "springing up like a shoot out of dry ground" underlines the unexpectedness of the servant's origins. In John 7:27 there is an intriguing hint that this prophetic motif was still alive in the first century, when some people in Jerusalem assume (in contrast with the more traditional view expressed in 7:42) that "When the Messiah comes, no one knows where he is from." 22

    On this view, then, the words "He shall be called a Nazorean" represent the prophetic expectation that the Messiah would appear from nowhere and would as a result meet with incomprehension and rejection. Of course the prophets could not speak specifically of Nazareth, which did not even exist when they wrote. But the connotations of the derogatory term "Nazorean" as applied in the first century to the messianic pretender Jesus captured just what some of the prophets had predicted - a Messiah who came from the wrong place, who did not conform to the expectations of Jewish tradition, and who as a result would not be accepted by his people. Even the embarrassment of an origin in Nazareth is thus turned to advantage as part of the scriptural model which Matthew has worked so hard to construct in this introductory section of his account of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth. 23

    Here are the footnotes numbered 20, 22, 23 from the NICNT reference:

    20. This line of interpretation goes back at least to Jerome in the fourth century.

    22. R. H. Gundry, Use, 103 - 4, while discerning a primary reference to Isa. 11:1, also argues that the messianic "branch" passages were understood at Qumran and in rabbinic literature "as meaning the Messiah will come out of obscurity and a low estate" and that at Qumran in particular neser carried "thoughts of lowliness, despisedness, and suffering."

    23. A further nuance may be perceived in the fact that by the middle of the first century Naroraios was becoming a recognized, and probably uncomplimentary, term for Christians (Acts 24:5; cf. Tertullian, Marc. 4.8; nasraya became the standard term for Christians in Syriac), so that Matthew's readers would more readily grasp and sympathize with the connotations of the term as applied to Jesus.

    [Note that "Nazorean" was the NICNT translation of "Nazarene" from the NWT.]

    Terry:

    If there is any validity to the NICNT view expressed by R. T. France, it actually makes your somewhat dismissive view fit in line with what was predicted by Matthew's "He will be called a Nazarene."

    Take Care

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Concerning Matthew's reference to Jeremiah in Matt. 27:9, 10:

    First, here is a quote of the verse:

    (Matthew27:9,10 NWT) . . .Then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled, saying: "And they took the thirty silver pieces, the price upon the man that was priced, the one on whom some of the sons of Israel set a price, 10 and they gave them for the potter's field, according to what Jehovah had commanded me."

    Here is the NICNT commentary concerning the 'Jeremiah' issue (pp.1042 - 3):

    9-10 The story of Judas's unavailing remorse has been told in such a way as to provide the cue for a creatively compiled formula-quotation. The introductory formula is identical with that of 2:17, but whereas there a recognizable quotation from Jeremiah followed, here the words that follow are primarily based on Zech 11:13. This is, however, not a simple quotation of a single text, but a mosaic of scriptural motifs [compare Matt 2:6; 11:10; 21:5 for similar hybrid/combined quotations - Bobcat], some of which do in fact come from Jeremiah. Like the combined quotation of Mark 1:2 - 3, it is attributed to the better known of the prophets concerned, even though its opening words are from the minor prophet. As a "quotation" about a potter's field it was naturally associated with Jeremiah as the prophet most memorably associated with potters and with the buying of a field. Note that Matthew's attributed quotations name only the major prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah (2:17; 3:3; 4:14; 8:17; 12:17; 13:14; 15:7; 27:9), together with one specific allusion to Daniel (24:15), while formal quotations drawn from the minor prophets are elsewhere left anonymous (2:5, 15; 11:10; 21:4; 26:31).

    [End of quote]

    As an example of the voluminous nature of the NICNT-Matthew commentary, R. T. France spends the next three pages of text describing where the various parts of 27:9 - 10 come from Zechariah and Jeremiah, along with variations in the wording in connection with the LXX and MT. For anyone wanting an encyclopedic reference to Matthew, and in fairness for my quoting from it, I heartily recommend it.

    Take Care

  • Terry
    Terry

    Terry:

    If there is any validity to the NICNT view expressed by R. T. France, it actually makes your somewhat dismissive view fit in line with what was predicted by Matthew's "He will be called a Nazarene."

    I thought it clever, imaginative, resourceful and elaborate. As retro-fitting goes, that is.

    A more fitting remark might raise the question as to who in the Jewish religion might read those sayings and smack themselves on the forehead

    and say, "Now THAT must be a prophecy that the Messiah must suffer, die for our sins and be raised alive on the 3rd day." Otherwise it is like fumbling the bowling ball and watching it careen, wobble and knock down all the pins and then declare: "Yep, that's how I meant to play it!"

  • mP
    mP

    The problem is Matthew got Nazarene the monk like devotion and Nazareth the place all mixed up. If i recall Samson was a Nazarene as well. Nazarenes were holy men who didnt shave for one amongst other things. I cant remember the rest but it seemed a pretty dumb way to devote yourself to God. Then again being a monk or nun and so on seems pretty pointless.

  • soontobe
    soontobe

    Looks like Ding and PSac have answered Terry's challenge.

  • Terry

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