Great arguments, play devils advocate for me

by logical1 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    My first time in Paris a long time ago I encountered an American tourist in a sidewalk cafe. He was sitting at the next table with a woman, I assume his wife. He ordered a cheese sandwich. When the waiter looked at him kinda stunned the man repeated himself. When the waiter replied in French while shaking his head the man raised his voice and said "Cheese sandwich!". When the waiter just stared at him the man yelled "I JUST WANT A GODDAM CHEESE SANDWICH!"

    Moral of the story, if they are incapable of interpreting what you are saying, you're not going to get through no matter how hard you try. In fact, the harder you try the less you will get through. There needs first to be an intellectual opening and for that you are better off planting a seed of doubt rather than presenting a slam dunk argument for which the automatic response will be defensive. Closing one's mind to an onslaught of logic is part of the indoctrination. And the Watchtower is sadly very effective at that.

    If, however, you discover the ultimate argument that is so subtly devastating as to shock one Jehovah's Witness after another into reality I will gladly donate $1000 to your bronze statue.

  • logical1
    logical1

    "If, however, you discover the ultimate argument that is so subtly devastating as to shock one Jehovah's Witness after another into reality I will gladly donate $1000 to your bronze statue."

    You simply have to eliminate their resistance to talk to apostates. If you can break that barrier you have a chance. Comparing the WT warning against apostates to a wife beating husband warning his victim wife against people who will say he doesn't really love her is a devastatingly effective argument. It paints a picture many can relate to, and nullifies the catch all defense of "I was warned smart people would try to convince me!"

    Essentially, if you can get your target to admit that a man who beats his wife is evil, and the beaten wife who blames herself instead of the husband is misled, you now have a wedge that you can move back and forth until they get it.

    They will never admit it immeadietly like you say, but over time I think this will eat at them.

    The only way to truly "shock" witnesses into reality is to buy time slots for a short 30 second commercial on national television.

    If you make the commercial too long, they will be warned against it by the society, so you have to make it so brief that by the time you find the remote it's over and the message has been played.

    The message should be something short and simple, like the example I gave above. It should be illustrated visually and not revealed until the end of the commercial that it's even anything to do with an oppressive religion. This tricks the guarded viewer into watching it before they have a chance to shut the information down, and connects them emotionally with the message.

    Why is this effective? Because unlike a valid argument after someoen has received doctrine, they have a defense built up. Once you receive the WT doctrine any information you receive is heavily filtered.

    When you receive a message without realizing its relevancy until later it's almost the equivalent of the "born in" witness having a moment of clairty when they hear how it applies, since they did not have their filter up when they received the message.

    For example, I tell you a thirty second description of a graphic love scene. At the end I say, "by the way, the story was about your ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend last night"

    Now it's stuck with them, they were forced to listen.

    If you guys are interested in making a commercial someone should start a kickstarter campaign. I feel bad though because it will ultimately result in the WT banning television lol.

  • sooner7nc
    sooner7nc

    Great Thread logical1.

  • ThisFellowCheap
    ThisFellowCheap

    @logical1, very great logic, indeed! I commend your rational thinking. But, I can assure you, from bitter personal experience, your sharpest sword wouldn't even cut butter with most of the JWs. I can be a very cunning debater, and people say I give the best saleman pitch anytime I wish to pass a message (at least, my university professors tell me so), yet I have tried most of these arguments with JWs all around me, save the infinite argument, but I doubt even that would work, you know why? Because the cognitive dissonance of an average JW is raised to the power of exponential infinite!

    But yes, maybe, it could strike a cord somewhere down down their minds, so I commend you once again- powerful arguments you've got!

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    You simply have to eliminate their resistance to talk to apostates.

    No, that's not it. Apostates are no less credible than those who never bought into the nonsense in the first place, but the latter aren't listened to either. The difference is they aren't automatically shunned. It makes no matter. If one is delivering a message someone else doesn't want to hear it is not heard. Full stop. Like that Emerson quote, "Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying." If you are not In The Truth you are not like them and as a consequence you will not ever be granted an unfiltered listening. Xenophobia is basic defense training for a Jehovah's Witness. Simply is not a word I would have used in the context of opening the eyes of a devout Jehovah's Witness to the reality I perceive. Not saying what I perceive is superior only that there is no simple approach to getting those indoctrinated by the Watchtower to see things in a different light, at least not one I have found after a few decades of trying. If you've got a simple solution you should market it. People who are desperate to get their loved ones out but who can't find a way would beat a path to your door.

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