by Adam 35 Replies latest jw friends
This is the land of opportunity.
I think you and I don't agree about this one. I see a huge difference between opportunity and free ride.
Do you think Fiji will welcome me and give me a free ride? Even if I refuse to work or learn the language?
Never Squat With Yer Spurs On
uuummm is Native American the common language of the US??? No English is....so if you move to a country where English is the common language what do you do???? Let's use all the brain cells this time shall we???
I don't have an issue with people moving here. But whenever and where ever I have moved I have ADAPTED to the environment around me. Go figure, huh?
Do you think Fiji will welcome me and give me a free ride? Even if I refuse to work or learn the language?
Perhaps this is the reason so many are dying to move to Fiji! [8>]
uuummm is Native American the common language of the US???It was at one time, which is my point exactly. Actually, each nation had their own language.
I don't have an issue with people moving here. But whenever and where ever I have moved I have ADAPTED to the environment around meHave you ever moved to another country? I've been all over the world and I can say without fail that other countries at least teach their children (from infancy) a second or third language.
Many Asian/Arabic countries don't even use the Alphabet as we know it. They use characters. How much more difficult do you think it is for someone from Korea to learn English than for someone from Spain or Italy?
Most of the languages from the European countries are based on Latin, just like English. This makes for a MUCH easier transition.
It just isn't as cut and dried as you make it seem.
I'm sure MANY of ALL of our ancestors used "free rides" when they could get it. What do you think happened when the government gave free land away to anyone willing to settle it? Do you have a problem with that? I wonder how many of those didn't speak perfect English.
I find it so funny that some of the posters on this thread are the most egregious when it comes to making errors in their native tongue, and yet they criticize ESL-ers.
Lisa
Adam,
At the behest of a friend, I’ve checked out your thread. I’m not clear on something. Would you, could you, help me out?
What do YOU think:
Should those who don’t speak English be deported?
We seem to be at cross purposes here...
What does native american have to do with this? We are discussing the current common language of the United States. If native american was the current common language of the United States, then yes we would expect people to know it.
I grew up in Europe and was taught the language of the countries I lived in.
I believe English should be taught in the school system to children who move here from another country. I believe adults who move here should have the opportunity to learn also...free classes? Perhaps to those that cannot afford to pay...But I do believe that you should learn the common language of the country where you live.
It would be nice if we taught our children several other languages, but you shouldn't HAVE to know a language other than the one commonly used in your country in order to get a job, order a meal or in any other way conduct our daily life. Yes we should be tolerent of people who have recently moved here, but they should also make the effort to adapt and learn the language of the country they have adopted.
As for the posters on this board and their use of the English language...well not all are english speaking...and come on we were JW's...lol we know the pure language ...
Perhaps this is the reason so many are dying to move to Fiji!
Exactly my point. It would take an effort to make it in Fiji, as in any other country. I don't understand the enthusiasm for handing out free rides?
Never Squat With Yer Spurs On
Xena,
I believe English should be taught in the school system to children who move here from another country. I believe adults who move here should have the opportunity to learn also...free classes? Perhaps to those that cannot afford to pay...But I do believe that you should learn the common language of the country where you live.I *totally* 100% agree with you. It seems you don't understand my position. Read my first post that talks about classes for ESL (English as Second Language).
YES free classes. This is where we differ. Just because something is 'free' doesn't mean there isn't an expense incurred. The ESL classes I am familiar with here in California often are six months or more in length. Because they are frequently held in the evening, the attendees have to make an effort to get there after a day of work (many times after asking "Would you like flies with that?" all day long).
Once these people have mastered English, they can continue to move up the ladder. They are tax-payers.
As an example, one of my best friends is Mexican-American. Raised here in the States, she is bi-lingual. Her husband is from Mexico, and speaks English haltingly. In Mexico he was the equivalent of a CPA. When he came here three years ago he started driving a tractor trailer for a major fertilizer company here in the Valley. At night, ON HIS OWN TIME, he took "free" classes to better his English.
The owner of the company noted that he was, in more ways than one, a STAND OUT employee. Long story short, the owner (white) took the time to find out a little more about this Mexican dude, and now is paying his way through State University here so he can get his CPA HERE. In the meantime, he quit driving long-haul and now keeps the company books and is in charge of 5 others.
So do you think I mind this dude taking free English classes? Gimme a stinkin' break.
When he married my friend, she has four children by two different husbands. He moved her out of the hood and into a $150,000 house and puts the food on the table every night. So much for the theory of the lazy Mexican.
In case you didn't know it LB, your parents probably also took advantage of freebies the governement offered when they were younger. Take some time to learn about the New Deal and FDR, the Forty Acres and a Mule, and the settlement of the West where our government gave land away to anyone willing to settle it.
I like the idea of sticking with one language, the one commonly spoken. I don't have a problem with other languages being used in addition, as, for example, when I go to a store in a predominantly Mexican part of town and find everything labeled in Spanish as well as English. I would be grateful to find English beside the native language signs and labels in any foreign country I visited, although I wouldn't expect it.
However, I do wish that the United States would dispose of English as its primary language and adopt one that is better structured; Spanish, for example. I don't know Spanish very well, but I studied it four years in high school (nobody to practice with = forgotten now). I recall that Spanish had logical and consistent conjugation of verbs, and I liked the association of gender in so much of their speech. Best of all, Spanish doesn't have such a mass of inconsistencies of pronunciation and spelling (through, tough; hew, sew; their, they're, there).
Yep, if we did it my way, we'd discard English and learn a language worth speaking.
LDH, I don't know where you got the idea that I feel threatened. Rather presumptious on your part to assume you know what I'm feeling, dontcha think? I'll tell you what I'm feeling, annoyed at non-English speakers in the USA who have had ample time and opportunity to learn the language of this country. Bringing up the Native American thing is pointless and I will waste no more time on it, Xena said all that needs to be said. In your last post you said "So much for the theory of the lazy Mexican." I never mentioned the lazy Mexican, no one is putting down or generalizing a group of people from any specific country. You are off-topic. You have rushed to the defense of an issue that is not being discussed here. Many of us simply feel frustrated by the fact that so many people in the USA don't speak English and that it is affecting our lives adversly. We are expressing that frustration and you are defending minorities. One does not equal the other.
Teejay, I think that deportation may be a little extreme, though I don't rule it out. I think that a basic grasp of the English language should be a prerequisite for citizenship. I think that voting ballots and DMV forms (among many other things) should be in English only, that alone would cause many people to learn English of their own will. I think that people in customer service rolls should be able to serve the customer, in America that should mean speaking English. I think that, if deportation was the punnishment for not knowing English, a very long grace period would have to be put into effect before the law was enforced, four years doesn't seem unreasonable. And also that the classes should be made free and convenient for those who would need them. Yes I think Americans should speak English. No I am not a heartless bastartd who wants to seal the boarders and who hates diversity.
COMF, I agree with you on your assesment of the English language compared to others. All the rules I learned about spelling as a child seem to have a million exceptions. Inconsistancy is the rule with English and I freely admit that I can't spell worth a damn. Kinda like the standard vs. metric thing. Standard is lame as hell. Perhaps we could continue using the English language, but just change all these stupid spellings within it, a total overhaul. I mean just look at how we spell the place where we learn English, "school." ???
Expatbrit, I have a question about "proper" English spoken by your ilk over there across the pond. What the hell is up with the invisable "R" in words that end with the letter "A"? For example:
Written: We are in America.
Brit speak: We are in America.
*compared with*
Written: America is at war.
Brit speak: AmericER is at war.
Another example from a UK band, Oasis:
Written: a champaign supernova
Brit speak: a champaign supernova
*compared with*
Written: a champaign supernova in the sky
Brit speak: a champaign supernovER in the sky
Why the ER dude?
Adam,
I'm agreeing with you more than you seem to think.
As far as the Native American language goes, the point I was making is that there were already perfectly functioning languages when the immigrants from Europe came here. As a group, did they make an effort to learn those languages, ? No, they didn't. Period. This is a good example of 'What Goes Around...'
For now, English is the predominant language in this country. FOR NOW. If you think the world is not moving to a universal economy and market, you are crazy.
No longer will people from the US be able to speak English alone; if you have children you'd better enroll them in a foreign language class quick.
I just don't understand the defense of a language that probably isn't even (most of) our true heritage. It's a red herring argument to limit immigration into this country.
And yes, it does seem a little uppity to me to presume that everyone who comes to this country should adapt to *all* of our ways. America is a land which has always adapted and it will continue to adapt.
My personal preference is that EVERYONE speak more than one language (yes, I do). But I don't see that happening anytime soon. In the meantime, no one has offered a good excuse for why we should NOT give classes for free to those who wish to learn English.
Like I said, the only way some of you are going to be happy is if Nguyen gets off the boat, checks directly into the Hilton and then proceeds to enroll in Conversational English 101 at the local university. All, of course, paid for by the outstanding income that years of rice paddy work enjoys.
I will say this, though. If any of your immediate family wanted to emigrate to the US and didn't speak English, what would you tell *them*? "Don't bother till you learn English?" Of course not! You'd probably do your best to help them learn English while getting established in this country, including getting a job. Where people would probably be very rude because they speak rudimentary English.
You wrongly assume that others aren't doing the same for their family.
Lisa
