Adultery in the Bible (page 5)

FlyingHighNow

So, Caliber, what's your point? In a nutshell.

Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. (NAS, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

mP:

Perhaps you need to ask yourself just who qualified to get this love. Slave owners inthe American South were also kind people as were Nazis. The problem was they werent kind to everyone. Those who were lesser than them were treated to a completely different standard in often cruel and terrible ways. Hitler was very kind to his dog apparently, but yet had no problems killing Jews, Russians and so on.

When people realise that the bible itself has this view point then it becomes more evident why there are nice passages and yet the heroes still do evil and are never condemned.

caliber

Caliber, what's your point? In a nutshell. ?

I contend that on the bases of your lengthy post (FHN ) (page 2) there appears to be other valid grounds for divorce

aside from adultery . (such as violent abuse and humilation etc ) however it also shows that women indeed had rights

and consideration under the Mosaic law.

I disagree with statements like these.. which were made

Also Jesus speaks of a man not divoricing his wife, except on the grounds of her adultery, again no provisions for her to divorce him for the same.

Also a man could divorce his wife but never the other way around for any reason.

caliber

heroes still do evil and are never condemned.

Please site your scriptural support or at least some examples for this statement ?

Perhaps you need to ask yourself just who qualified to get this love. Slave owners inthe American South were also kind people as were Nazis. The problem was they werent kind to everyone.

I fail to see the logic.. are you saying that Hilter and the slave owners were professed Christains and failed to apply principled love

therefore the whole christian system is wrong ?

Hitler was a rationalist and materialist, who saw Christianity as a religion "fit for slaves", and against the natural law of selection and survival of the fittest. [ 5 ] Though Hitler had respect for the 'great position' of the Catholic church, Bullock wrote he became hostile to its teachings. [ 5 ] According to the biographer Kershaw, while Hitler was secretive and able to disguise his inner beliefs, he held radical instincts on the "Church Question" in Germany, evidenced by "frequent outbursts of hostility" towards them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

it was two Christians who liberated the slaves: Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. but what bearing does that have on the truth of God's word... we all stand as individuals before God

mP

Caliber:

The point is Paul's view of love is very different from our own. He could say such elegant seemingly kind words and yet condemn slaves to return to their masters as we see in the story in Philemon. My point is dont be deceived and think Paul is a source or fount of morality. Be happy men like him dont set the standard today.

Slave owners in the south professed the love their fellow men, and they used the bible and went to church every sunday but couldnt see the evil of their greedy slave holdings.

My point has nothing to do with Hitlers religious views. All political leaders use religion to motivate and intimidate the masses.

Fernando

Like Ray Franz and many others, I too have come to learn that legalism is apostasy.

The same for moralism.

Both are appalling frameworks from which to try and understand the intent of scripture.

It is no accident that religiosity belies the morality it preaches.

The more religious the environment, the more it breeds incest, rape and unfaithfulness.

My wife was raped for 7 years from the age of 6 by her older brother, abetted by her mother. Both blame her though.

Yes, you guessed it - he "serves" as an elder - and has for many years.

(Why does the "true religion" secretly blind its followers to the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms?)

caliber

Slavery was commonplace in Old Testament times, all nations had slaves. Israel as a nation were slaves for over 400 years; when they were freed God gave them laws for slaves that were not the same as the other nations. The slaves had rights in Israel’s social system, unlike other nations. When we think of slavery it conjures up the image of racial prejudice, but this was not the case. They did not treat them as non - human or animals but as men made in the image of God.

Eph 6:5-7: “Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men.”

(A bondservant was one who willing to be a slave (servant) and did his work because he loved his master.)

Eph 6:5-7: “Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men.”

1 Tim. 6:2 “And those who have believing masters, let them not despise them because they are brethren, but rather serve them because those who are benefited are believers and beloved. Teach and exhort these things.”

In other words they still have this boss employee relationship, it did not end because they were both believers

Jewish slaves could not be held for more than six years and were given a choice to leave (Exod.21:2). they could voluntarily choose to remain: (Exod.21:5-6).

Slavery was more an occupation, servanthood with rights

Of course there was" abuse of power" over time , thus the need of the New Covenant

Paul speaks of all being baptized into Christ which makes us united, God sees us as equals. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28) No one is greater than the other if he is their master or has greater wealth or authority.

caliber

What then is the difference between Christian teachings and moralism ?

John 8 of the woman caught in the act of adultery and brought before Jesus by the Pharisees.

...they figured they had an airtight case of adultery and if Jesus contradicted this, they thought they would be able to charge him with violating the law

of Moses. This is a beautiful account in which Jesus teaches us to remember our own sinfulness, not condemn others

The message of Christianity is that Jesus died for sinners. God will forgive all those who believe on Jesus as their Savior. The Gospel is a personal

message. The sinner is supposed to think of himself, of his sins, and of his need for a Savior. It is a Good News message of grace and forgiveness and

freedom and joy!

16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Ephesians 2:8
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

2 Corinthians 3:6
6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life

The moralist, starts out putting obedience first, it is one who loses sight of grace and replaces it with morality

... this not saying that we are not to discern between good and evil and right and wrong doctrine based on the Bible. Certainly, we are. but straight moralism apart from grace is wrong.

Fernando

I really loved reading your thoughts and clear way of explaining, slavery and moralism vs Christianity, in the above two posts, caliber!

What can I say but Hallelujah!

caliber

Fernando

thanks , it gives me a warm feeling ....but the power is found in seeking more deeply the true meaning of scriptures..

many thoughts and expressions I have picked up from the words of others here and there in other discussions

P.S I am truly sorry for the suffering that your sister and even yourself have felt due to your above experience !

Adultery in the Bible

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