An open response to Cedars PM yesterday . . .

by zed is dead 98 Replies latest members adult

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  zed is dead

  Cedars,

  I just want to reply point-by-point to the PM that you sent. It is obvious that you still log on here since you sent it to me personally. I realize that you told me to email you with the information you requested, but any reasoning person would be able to ascertain why I am not comfortable giving you my personal email address. That is why I am responding here.

  Don't worry, I am not going to violate posting guidelines and paste your PM here. What I will do is respond to the things you have asked of me. As I have nothing to hide, I would like to share what I tell you here instead of responding by PM. I see a need for transparency on this.

  You mentioned that you are anxious to get on top of what happened on April 3rd, so that you can make a full apology to all who were affected by the indiscriminate adding of members to the AAWA group - including me.

  So you admit that an "indiscriminate adding" of members happened on April 3rd. These apparently were "force added" by AAWA, otherwise you would not have asked me for more information.

  You asked me if I would email a summary of what happened, including any exchanges with AAWA volunteers, to your email address at [email protected].

  As I have previously stated, I will not respond with my personal email. Also, I do not see why you would want me divulge my personal correspondence with anyone, including AAWA volunteers. It is obvious you know who added me, or could have found out very easily. You are the President. And directly resulting from your own actions, and inactions, I do not trust you.

  The way you are handling this reminds me of how Elders would "investigate" situations in congregational matters. You want me to tell you everything I know, and give no feedback on who did it. Well, that is not going to happen. Just let me tell you this, I DO KNOW who added me. If you don't, you are either lazy or incompetent.

  Another thing you may not realize, but many of those harmed are friends in real life, and are comparing notes. You are not the only one investigating. We are too. And I must confess, we are a pretty amazing. Loose knit, and very smart. Unlike the self-proclaimed "amazing" AAWA organization.

  I also would like to address the blanket insults that you have written about the membership here. You used this site to your own advantage when it suited you. Now you took a major crap in Simon's living room, and on all of the people of JWN. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  I want to point out that you said you wanted to apologize to everyone hurt by this. You have had three weeks to do it since April 3rd. Wanting to is not doing it, and you need to apologize to many more people than just those outed. Your security breach has irreparably damaged the cause your group purports to represent. Many that want to leave are going to be much more wary reaching out for help. This may be the biggest tragedy coming out of this vile situation.

  You closed that PM by asking if I could give you the opportunity to try to put things right, and that you would appreciate the opportunity.

  I really wish I could help you with that, but it is already much too late.

  You had that opportunity as soon as you found out that identities MAY have been compromised. The responsible thing would have been to shut down AAWA's Facebook sites UNTIL you did a thorough investigation. This would have mitigated a great deal of damage. Instead you have let this fester for three weeks and counting.

  My question to you is WHY? Simon truly was trying to help you when he suggested that. You took that as an attack, which it wasn't meant to be. He had the responsibility when he saw this train wreck coming to warn you. You made your bed, now you must lie in it.

  The worst thing that an ex-JW can do is to out another ex-JW. There are no exceptions to that rule!

  And my big question to you is, why are you so cavalier about the outing of others? This should have been of paramount importance to you, considering how concerned you are about not being outed yourself. How would you feel if someone attached whatever your real name is to the identity of John Cedars? What do you have to lose? How would you feel?

  We already have documented proof that one poster got outed and uninvited to his brother's wedding. He has also had the information forwarded to his elders. This is AAWA's fault by not addressing this in a timely fashion. I blame you as the President of AAWA for allowing this to happen. Frankly I do not think at this late date you can do anything to totally fix this. I would not be able to look at myself in the mirror if I were you.

  I am going to ask you to do one thing. TAKE DOWN YOUR FACEBOOK SITES NOW!

  Okay, I will also ask one more. Please stop taking advantage of Marvin Shilmer to do your dirty work for you. I believe him to be a decent guy, and I now feel bad for him for the berating he has received from me and others. Please from now on, leave the poor guy alone. I think he is a sincere older gentleman, that just innocently got sucked into your shitstorm. Please speak for yourself from now on. That would be a start in me regaining some level of respect for you.

  I appreciate in advance your addressing this immediately.

  Sincerely,

  zed is dead
• 

  Stealth

  Zed,

  This is not Marvin's first rodeo, he has been around the xJW community for a very long time, much longer than you. I seriously doubt that he is being used by Cedars to do his dirty work, he is not that neive. More than likely it is exaclty as Marvin has stated and he is doing his own vetting process to see if he wants to contribute or associate with this association going forward.

  As far as shutting down the facebook page and restarting, I completly agree with your comments. It should have been done weeks ago.
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  wha happened?

  I was PM'd directly as well, from one of the AAWA minions. I don't think it was Cedars. But anyone can make up a name on this site and gain access. It was a pathetic sell on what the AAWA is trying to accomplish. He also told me they are well funded. I obviously annoyed the AAWA by my comments for them to take the time to contact me via PM.

  A real person would have made the request and apology directly to those affected. But what can we expect of a cartoon character.
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  talesin

  Well said, Zed.

  :P I'm a poet!

  but seriously, I agree.

  So,,, CEDARS,,,,,,,,,,,, what say you?

  And I must ask, JULIA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what say YOU? Your nasty remarks about JWN are,,, I don't know what to say ... over the top? That doesn't really show the disgust I feel for your vitriolic speech ... after all JWD/JWN has done for thousands of people over the years.

  SMH

  xo

  tal
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  WinstonSmith

  Excellent post Zed is Dead. You have hit on the main points that have been concerning many people. I would like to see this thread populated with posts of exchange between Zed and Cedars (or any other nominated AAWA representative) and not become a ten pages in two days epic.

  AAWA have an easily available grass roots level bunch of people here who if given the right direction and trust would be ready to get grassy and rooty.
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  slimboyfat

  Thanks for spelling this out Zed.

  You are exactly right, the attitude is reminiscent of elders who will demand personal information from you, provide you with no information in return, and take it upon themselves to decide whether you have any legitimate cause for complaint through some undisclosed procedure behind closed doors.

  As for an apology when they mess up - forget about it!
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  Dagney

  zed, well done.

  I fell for the "just email me" from Cedars, and wish I had not. I am so sorry I was trusting.

  All the information is here to read. One can do it in an hour or so if one is REALLY interested in finding out what happened.
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  Tylinbrando

  Zed,

  Thank you for taking the time to communicate with Cedars. It is understandable that you want to be transparent and would want to express your responses here.

  If any progress is to be made by AAWA, it will be in part because people like you have engaged with them one on one.

  I know you are skeptical that anything will ever be done to address these issues of concern by so many after 3 weeks with no action.

  I remain hopeful that everyone is being heard and that changes will be made to address and remedy the issues that concern all of us.

  I am also hopeful that Cedars can do the right thing and somehow mend relationships and broken trusts.

  Thanks for your efforts to convey messages.
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  zed is dead

  I just saw the thread from Mad Sweeney that AAWA is finally taking down the offending Facebook groups. If this is a response to this thread from Cedars, and if it is true, then I am glad Cedars finally did the right thing.

  It is a step in the right direction. I just hope that the tourniquet wasn't applied too late to save others from being outed.

  zed
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  whathappened

  I feel bad for everyone concerned. The AAWA folks conceived a wonderful plan and some missteps were made. No intention harm was done,but the harm is done non the less. I am sure the board members have lost a great deal of sleep over this. They are new at this and like the bumper sticker says, "shi* happens." It surely did for a lot of innocent people involved. I don't know if this can be fixed.