Bad chronology - Samuel, Saul and David (page 3)

Jeffro

You're veering off into your imaginary alternative history again. If you're going to do that, please go elsewhere. Thanks.

mP

mP: Its funny how so many jewish kings ruled 40 years. Saul , David, Solomon, Moses , thats obviously utterly stupid.

Lars
Good point, but I think we have to consider manipulation. Case in point the 70 years of exile and the sabbath payback of the land. It is exactly 70 years after the people were deported off the land. But it took some time after the fall of Jerusalem and the conquering of the other cities to completely empty the land. The deportation of the nations out of that region took up to 23 years. That is, Daniel was first deported in the accession year of Nebuchadnezzar and the last deportation was in year 23.
But there was some fine tun

mP:

How much more proof do you need to verify that the periods are made up. If you are going to make up the length then theres a reasonable chance that you are manufacturing other details in your politically motivated history.

2+2=5

I favor divine manipulation vs. simply coincidence, though.

Yes who doesn't love divine manipulation. Coincidence is dull and boring.

It's great that whenever massive leaps in logic are needed to get over the impossible, that is so often presented in the bible, we just wave the magic divine manipulation miracle wand and ignore the obvious errors and contradictions. It is isn't really a level playing field when believers cry miracle when presented with insurmountable facts.

mP

2+2=5

BUt Jehovah apparently only likes to hang out in the dry deserts of the middle east. Why is he absent from the Americas, Australia, Africa and most of Europe and Asia ?

2+2=5

Maybe the climate? The Australian aborigines were not circumcised either, so that could present some difficulties for god.

Larsinger58

JEFFRO:You're veering off into your imaginary alternative history again. If you're going to do that, please go elsewhere. Thanks.

LARS: Yes, I think I will. I'm getting a little tired of your Freemasonry b.s. as well. Do me the courtesy of never posting on any of my posts and I'll show you the same courtesy. Also NEVER mention my name again. If you do, then the deal is off. I'll post separately and never mention your name specifically again.

Thanks, Jeff. See you around...

Larsinger58

2+2=5:

Yes who doesn't love divine manipulation. Coincidence is dull and boring.

It's great that whenever massive leaps in logic are needed to get over the impossible, that is so often presented in the bible, we just wave the magic divine manipulation miracle wand and ignore the obvious errors and contradictions. It is isn't really a level playing field when believers cry miracle when presented with insurmountable facts.

LARS:

You know, I understand your position, but the elect have evidence on the other side that balances this out. Remember, God likes to catch the wise in their cunning and so makes things difficult to believe if you're an unbeliever and trying to find reasons not to believe. So maybe the specific 40-year reigns (3x40=120) and Moses dying at 120 years was intentional. God is pushing people away from the center line. Lots of people want to straddle the fence and wait for what's going to happen. But Jehovah is pushing people away from the middle line so that one is pushed toward belief or away from belief.

ACTS 13:41 "Behold it, you scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in your days, a work that you will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail."

The unlikely or exceptional pattern of the 40-year rulerships makes it seem invented rather than real for an unbeliever, but those who know God is real and believe the Bible find hidden meaning in these things.

The Bible says for those with much, more will be given. But for those with "nothing" that will be taken away. So let's say you were always a skeptic, which would be you having "nothing" or no faith. To take that away means you go into the negative, which means you will be provided things that reassure your disbelief and prove to you beyond any doubt things in the Bible are "implausible." In the meantime, the chosen get more, meaning with all their faith already in place, they get to see the miracles that turn faith into reality. That's how God has it set up.

Jeffro and I are making a truce to avoid each other so I hope you don't mind if I don't respond to your comments on his tread after this, though I might begin a new thread and address it. In the meantime, if you wish to bring up a topic yourself separately I'll be happy to continue sharing my position. That's all I'm doing, sharing what another JW or XJW is thinking and feeling about this topics. It doesn't mean I'm proving anything to you, just my take on it.

Jeffro

Larsinger58:

Yes, I think I will. I'm getting a little tired of your Freemasonry b.s. as well. Do me the courtesy of never posting on any of my posts and I'll show you the same courtesy. Also NEVER mention my name again. If you do, then the deal is off. I'll post separately and never mention your name specifically again.

I don't make 'deals' with people who claim I'm associated with 'Freemasonry' and think they're 'the Messiah'. Get help.

Jeffro

that would explain how he could have a grown son, Jonathan, his eldest, at least age 20 or slightly more 2 years into his reign.

There is no solid basis for the claim that Jonathan was Saul's oldest son. It is an assumption based only on Jonathan's name being listed first at 1 Samuel 14:49. It is more likely that he is listed first because he is a prominent character in the story.

In contrast, 'believers' specificially assert that even though Abraham is listed first at Genesis 11:26, it doesn't 'really' mean he was the oldest (because otherwise it contradicts Genesis 11:32 & 12:4).

John Kesler

Here is another numerical discrepancy that results if we accept Acts' 40-year reign for Saul:

1 Samuel 7:1-2 reads as follows:

1 And the people of Kiriath-jearim came and took up the ark of Yahweh, and brought it to the house of Abinadab on the hill. They consecrated his son, Eleazar, to have charge of the ark of Yahweh. 2 From the day that the ark was lodged at Kiriath-jearim, a long time passed, some twenty years, and all the house of Israel lamented after Yahweh.

The problem is that the ark was taken to the "house of Abinadab on the hill" before Saul became king (1 Samuel 10:1), Saul reigned for forty years (Acts 13:21), and the ark wasn't retrieved from "the house of Abinadab on the hill" until Saul's successor David was king (2 Samuel 6:1-3). After a three-month stopover at the "house of Obed-edom the Gittite" (2 Samuel 6:10-11), it was taken to "the city of David," an area that had been under Jebusite control for at least seven and a half years into David's reign (2 Samuel 5:5), meaning that around 50 years elapsed between the delivery of the ark to Abiadab's house and its retrieval by David. That's around a thirty-year discrepancy, which can't just be waived off with the copyist-error excuse.

Bad chronology - Samuel, Saul and David

Share this