WT - Nisan 14 + the Paschal Full Moon = Babylonian Astronomy

by *lost* 31 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  *lost*

  I stumbled across this today and found it rather interesting. Espescially as there is sometimes controversy over the Nisan 14 date.

  Paschal Full Moon.

  Refers to the Ecclesiastical Full Moon of the Northern Spring to determine the date of Easter

  A full moon is a lunar phase that occurs when the moon is on the opposite side of the earth from the sun.

  The moon is in opposition with the sun.

  Babylonian Astronomy.

  According to Asger Asaboe - the origins of Western Astronomy can be found in Mesopotamia and all Western efforts in the exact sciences are descendants in direct line from the work of the Babylonian Astronomers.

  Chaldeans were the Astronomers of Mesopotamia, who were, in reality, priest scribes specialising in Astronomy and other forms of divination

  (taken from wiki )

  There is a lot more information on this and it's Pagan Babylonian Origins.

  Considering WT teachings focus heavily on 'False Religion' and Babylon, I find it odd they co-ordinate the memorial dates to the Paschal Full moon and Astronomy.

  Things we are warned to stay away from.

  Amazing the things we can find when we have the freedom to research them.
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  Phizzy

  I think the WT warned against Astrology, not Astronomy.

  The whole debate about the date for the "Memorial" has had many posts on here, suffice to say that the WT gets it all wrong, from many perspectives.

  As usual the WT have incorrectly interpreted the original Passover as to timings of events, and ignore the clues in the Gospels as to when Jesus actually did this, they don't even read their own handbook.

  Another aspect to be considered is that it is unlikely Jesus was instituting an annual "celebration", it is more likely he was saying whenever you gather together then do this, break bread and drink wine especially blessed by prayer, and it will remind you of all I taught, and that I will return.

  All chrisitians would have partaken of this "meal" to show they had accepted Jesus as Saviour.
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  mP

  Passover is astrology, its the celebration of the spring equinox. First it was Moses who repalced the festival of first fruits, then christians bested moses and a new hero was born Jesus.
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  AnnOMaly

  As Phizzy said, it is astrology that JWs are warned against.

  Back then the 'sciences' of astronomy and astrology were the same, and the distinction between them continued to be blurred until about the 17th century. To be a 'good astrologer,' one had first to be a 'good astronomer.' People observed the sky, tried to see patterns in celestial behavior and, because the world and universe were controlled by G/god(s), those patterns were interpreted as omens/messages from them.

  There's never been anything objectionable with the astronomy part. The Babylonians were excellent sky-watchers and they developed the mathematical foundations upon which the Greeks, and those that came after, built upon.
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  mP

  As Phizzy said, it is astrology that JWs are warned against.

  MP:

  Not quite. The passages in the Bible that condemn astrology is related to other religions and gods.

  Job 38:32 for example tells us God controls the zodiac. Do a quick scan and you will find nearly all synogogues and even the temple of Solomon was filled with astrology. For example the temple pointed east towards the sun, for the same reason all other pagan temples also point east. The vatican also points east because they are all worshipping the sun. Go some research about Joachim and Boaz the large phallic columns at the entrance of the temple.

  The jewish day of atonement is during the time of virgo in september. Nearly all major hebrew holidays are on solstices and equinoxes.

  We can see the same story today with the WTS and other christian religions. They all claim to worship jehovah, they just condemn each other, some of course with more energy. What we can see is that each relgion wants your money or devotion to their leaders for their selfish advantage.

  There are dozens and dozens of scriptures where the bible admits to the zodiac. Lasstly if astrology is wrong, then why was Daniel an astrologer ? Why did Jehovah guide astrologers (thats what magi means) to visit jesus ? Again on all these occassions astrology is an instrument for god and not condemned.

  The same goes for numerology. Numerology is only wrong when they do it, never when the bible does it.
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  AnnOMaly

  Not quite.

  Yes quite. JWs are warned against astrology, not astronomy.

  Regarding your points about the zodiac. Astronomically, the zodiac is merely the 12 constellations along the ecliptic through which the Sun appears to move throughout the year and which marks the months/seasons. Job 38:32 does not contradict that.

  Astrology puts an interpretation upon those movements relating to the stars and planets as if they influence earthly events and fortell the future. The Bible has consistently spoken against that practice (e.g. Deut. 18:10-12) as it emphasizes that there is One Almighty Creator of everything and it is He alone that has influence over events and can truly predict the future. Yes, Daniel learnt the ways of the Chaldeans (including astrology) but his book ALWAYS makes it clear that YHWH was giving the interpretations of (note) dreams and visions - not the Babylonian gods through their manifestions in the sky.

  The Magi who visited Jesus? Again, there are examples of God either averting or bringing disaster upon His people by means of pagan individuals. He uses whomsoever He wishes, but the argument does not follow that He therefore approves of astrology or pagan religion. That the Hebrews fell into worshipping other gods isn't a sign of YHWH's approval of those false practices.
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  *lost*

  I was trying to pin down the Astrology aspect, and how it contradicts what WT, as they are supposed to stay away from these things.

  Can anyone with more knowledge help to shine more light on this ?

  Much appreciated.

  lost - was, but thanks to jwn, I am found, lol
• 

  mP

  lost:

  The bible never condemns astrology, it only condemns astrologers from other religions. All religions have some astrological aspect to them. Another example is sacrificing animals or pay gold to the temple, its fine if its jehovahs temple but if its baals then its wrong. Its important to realise all these rules and condemnations have a selfish movitation, the jewish priests want it all, they want an exclusive monopoly.

  Job 38:32 says that god controls the zodiacs and the signs. jsoephus tells us the temple in jerusalem had a zodiac wheel in it, and yet jesus never complains. There are many archeological sites that confirm things like this with many places of jewish worship with zodiac wheels etc.

  The signs of astrology can be found in nearly all cathedrals and basilicas, including st peters. It has a obelisk at its center, it points east, it has a cross over st peters square which coincides with the equinoxes and solstices. The temple in jerusalem also pointed east just like many major temple complexes.

  Jesus birth is found by astrologers. seems strange god would inform or send such men unless he actually wanted too. Why mention their arrival if they are so evil ?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_of_Immortality
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  *lost*

  Thank you mp

  So, in a nutshell, would be considered pagan?

  I began to think on the zodiac etc recently, when I read a bit about the Chinese Years.

  year of the rooster, dragon etc, and I had an ooh moment, lol.
• 

  mP

  lost;

  just look at the jewish holidays, they all lie on the solstices and equinoxes. xian has xmas and guess what judaism also has a festival of the lights (Hannukah) on the same day for the same reason to be happy that the sun is born and the days are lengthning.

  the zodiac has 12 signs and there are 7 planets, guess which numbers are also magical for the judaism. there are many many other examples that would take pages. the animals given tot he beasts of ezekiel and the 4 gospels are all signs from the zodiac. You can probably spot a few, just remember different cultures assign different animals. Our western zodiac isnt the same as others.