The lawyers, they are in control. Probably some businessmen making a lot of money out of the Watchtower too.
The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power
by Dogpatch 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
metatron
I am now more puzzled than before!
As to Ray's abilities, I think his books (and the AID book, as edited by him) speak for themselves. I did not know him well.
As for the rest, I am aware of most of the 'events' you speak about in Bethel history, however kind sir, it appears that you have not answered the question concerning a present hidden governance of the WTS, as your presented account is quite dated (like us!).
I take some solace in the fact that the men who are most responsible for my waste of youth are dead and buried. I do know that the current GB may have limited legal authority over the whole organization to protect them from liability.
More than that, I cannot say. That's the issue in a nutshell: who's really in charge?
metatron
-
Refriedtruth
All good to know bravo Randy
-
LisaRose
This reminds me of a Netflix series called House of Cards, with Kevin Spacey. It's about politics and a corrupt senator who will do anything to get more power. He manipulates and maneuvers, and cares nothing for the consequences, he is pure evil. He sets people up, carries out vendettas and uses a naive reporter to plant stories to further his interests. Power is like currency to people like that, they can never get enough.
It cracks me up when people insist that the GB are humble servants, who live in poverty. They don't get that these creeps are manipulating their lives, that is the payoff for them, if they tell you tomorrow that you shouldn't eat grapes, because some obscure scriptures mentions them, and first century Christians were known for not eating grapes, then you will stop eating grapes, and think it was your own conscience. That is power.
-
Vidiot
metatron - "That's the issue in a nutshell: who's really in charge?"
Yeah, I kinda wish Randy would just tell us, already, too (unless he's still compiling evidence to build his case).
I'm pretty sure at this point that my theory wasn't what he was getting at... *shrug* ...maybe it was wishful thinking, anyway.
-
Dogpatch
Actually I don't remember all the names, mostly because I worked in the factory and they were in the home. But although the GB is not on their several Board of Directors and legal officers, the ones that ARE on there will tell you for the most part. :-))
There's more than one reason the GB was left off the officers in the Borg. :-))
Barb Anderson could tell you the names. I'm not good at remembering names, but I remember all their faces. They have been there for ages. I might get some of it wrong, so I avoid conjecture. I just knew most of the heavies in the factory.
But Don Adams (I think he's president now), and a lot of the office old timers. Look at the list of the Boards of Directors. Or just ask Barb ANDERSON, SHE KNEW THEM ALL IN THE 80S. Or ask Tom Cabeen, the Kuilans, Cris and Norma Sanchez, Ed Dunlap (deceased), etc.
I'm not good at remembering names, nor did I know many of them personally. I DID know Knorr, both Franzs, and a few of the old GB (mostly puppets). I knew a few on the Service Dept. as well. But I was in the factory and knew the heads therte, butr they had no real power, not even Max Larson (for several reasons). But rather than give wrong or inaccurate names (I remember all their faces), I'll leave it to someone who worked in Brooklyn offices during the 70s and 80s. A few are still there, and quite in control.
Harley Miller lived 5 feet from my door, and I knew him - quite powerful and gave much different advice on judicial committee stuff when the elders would call him, the expert and chief. His word carried FAR more weight than any WT policy. WT was too cheap to put a phone in his room in the 107 building, so he was always out in the hallway right next to my door answering tough questions and telling elders and committees what to do. Virtually none of his advice was from the "elders manuals." Typical cutthroat corporation, disguised as a religion. People are expendable, the Borg is NOT.
But you wouldn't necessarily even know this as a Bethel elder... you actually had to be around them a lot (or know those who were, like the Cabeens) and watch and listen. Profiling! :-))
I'm the type of person who watches... body language, facial expressions, etc., which rarely lie. But people lie with their tongues, so I gave less credit to what people said than what I clearly observed.
By the way, few who worked there for years AND KNEW THE HEAVIES would disagree with me on this stuff. I'm not trying to tease you or think I was somehow special. I just watch and listen a lot. It really was not that big of a deal to me, as I always considered them the same as secular organization corporate leaders. I was warned about this by a former Bethel elder before I even got there in 1974... didn't faze me.
I know it sounds odd... but most Bethelites pay no attention to these "hidden" facts nor do they really care. Once you live there a year, you know they're almost all corrupt or playing the corporate game. Then you can't wait to leave! It wasn't really that interesting to most Bethelites... they expected it because they saw so much of this duplicity anyway. Before I went to Bethel I was warned about the racism, fights, smoking, homosexuality, etc. but most of it you learned from listening to the GB at the breakfast table. It was really quite obvious, as shocking as it may seem. We just took it for granted!
Randy
-
frankiespeakin
Dog,
I really don't follow your logic on this one.
I've researched the corporation on wiki and I don't think there is an unseen and unkown power greater that the Governing Body controlling things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. [ edit ]
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. is a corporation used by Jehovah's Witnesses, which is responsible for administrative matters, such as real estate, especially within the United States. This corporation is typically cited as the publisher of Jehovah's Witnesses publications, though other publishers are sometimes cited. The corporation's stated purposes are: “Charitable, benevolent, scientific, historical, literary and religious purposes; the moral and mental improvement of men and women, the dissemination of Bible truths in various languages by means of the publication of tracts, pamphlets, papers and other religious documents, and for religious missionary work.” [ 8 ]
Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses [ edit ]
Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Inc. was established to organize and administer the congregational affairs of Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States. [ 11 ] [ 12 ] It filed for incorporation on August 21, 2000 in New York State as a “domesticnon-profit corporation” in Putnam County, New York. [ 13 ] An incorporation record was also filed with the State of Florida on March 3, 2006, as a "foreign non profit corporation" with agency in Collier County, Florida. [ 14 ]
As announced to congregations in January 2001, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is a corporation used by their United States Branch Committee, which oversees the preaching work of Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, Bermuda, and the Turks and Caicos Islands. [ 15 ] All Branch Committee members are appointed by and report to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. [ 16 ] [ 17 ]
As with other agencies of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses may correspond directly with any district overseer, circuit overseer, local body of elders, or individual, or it may assign someone else to communicate on its behalf. Any of these persons or groups may function as an agency acting at the explicit direction of the Governing Body. [ 18 ] [ 19 ]
Other corporations [ edit ]
Since the formation of the International Bible Students Association, many other corporations sanctioned by the Governing Body have been used throughout the world to further the interests of Jehovah's Witnesses [ 23 ] by supporting the activities of their respective branch offices in different countries, for example:
-
metatron
Randy, Randy, Randy......
I too, knew most of the people you did - and there's one problem with them:
they're freakin' dead !
What exactly is the current situation? We're gonna need up-to-date info for that and it looks like we ain't got it.
metatron
-
gingerbread
Randy - your perspective on the situation is sound - except for a few points that must be recognized. The GB does in fact wield tremendous power - over 7 million humans on this planet who adhere faithfully to their dictates. The times have changed since your days in Bethel - the membership of JW's has quadrupled. Your understanding of headquarters is firmly set by your own experience - 40 years ago. I knew plenty of brothers that worked in the factory during the 70's. They are now aged, faithful brothers of retirement age without a retirement fund. Or, some were disallusioned by the whole experience and eventually found their way out of the org.
Many of us didn't become a JW because of our doorbell ringing one Saturday morning. We're second and third generation 'born-in' Witnesses. Those of us who have confronted our doubts, find ourselves in a pecular situation. The problem is complex. And, decisions about our future can be difficult.
We've come to understand - by working at KH and Assembly Hall builds with the RBC's, by being aware of the drastic downsizing of the org, realizing the massive legal problems the WT corporations find themselves in, etc. - that the current situation of the org is perhaps unknowable. Your parallel to a commercial corporation and the WT Org is correct - in that the Org is a commercial corporation(s).
The mystique of the organization has evaporated in our time.
-
sosoconfused
As it stands now all the prominent faces and figures of the Watchtower are dead.
Franz the "oracle"
Sydlik "the Voice"
etc... etc... etc...
These guys had charisma and everyone did tend to know these individuals and looked forward to them on the local level. People actually knew who these men were and they cared. Nowadays even faithful brothers barely know who is on the governing body and they do not care to know. Most people under the age of 60 are just going through the motions and following along with the tradition of the family.
New members really view the kingdom Hall as more of a local church family that happens to have other branches worldwide. Doesn't seem to have that same "international brotherhood" feeling the org once did. Its like a bunchof nation states instead of the theocratic empire it once was.
The GB has a huge amount of authority but no one knows who these guys are or even cares to know anymore.