Hi Gary, I mainly know Christian values through Jehovahs witnesses and the point at which these clash with the western value of becoming so financially independent as to be able to choose one's life makes me see how damaging the witness stand against this particular western value is.
Are Western values compatible with Christian values?
by garyneal 29 Replies latest jw friends
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mP
village:
Western Values ARE a product of the the Bible.
mP: Really are you sure ? Where in the Bible does it say -give free schooling and education to kids ? -give free pensions and not collecting the left over scraps from the fields to old and sick people ? NUMBERS 5:2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead: -ban slavery ? -ban rape ? The bible only says men should pay 50 coins. Isnt that nice, the father gets paid, the rapist takes away the women and she suffers in silence. Deu22:27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 22:28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 22:29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her , he may not put her away all his days.
-ban pedophilia -equal rights for women -equal rights for gays, lesbians, sick people. The bible says sick people arent even allowed in gods temple.
Who needs morals like that ? If you believe in Bible morality go live in Iran or Saudi Arabia. -
mP
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mP
village:
You are a fool if you believe that other societies didnt have equal or better laws than the Torah.
Egypt had a better system thats why they prospered in both wealth and technology. The BIble tells us that most Jews didnt want to come back from Babylon because the Torah was a curse and the king and priests had taxed the locals so severly that they were better away from home.
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cofty
Villagegirl - "The ten commandments" - really?
Please go read them and notice how banal the commandments are. Actually there are three versions of them in Exodus, chapter 20, in Exodus, chapter 34 and in Deuteronomy, chapter 5.
The version in Exodus, the only one that actually refers to ten, includes the gems as - " You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven" and "You shall not boil a kid in its mother's milk".
Most of the commands are about the childish jealousy of Yahweh and prohibitions against worshiping foreign gods.
Do you really think the nation arrived as Sinai blithely killing, stealing and shagging everything that moves until god shared the revelation that this wasn't good?
The co-called ten commandments are the most useless collection of instructions in the history of humanity. A child could write a more helpful set of commands.
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mP
There arent even ten commandments in the ten commandments. The various xian religions cant agree and its between 11-13.
I fyou read them yourself you will see the actual number is not ten in any of the forms mentioned by cofty. But why believe me when you read for yourself.
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garyneal
Thanks for the responses, everyone. Interesting responses all and kind of illustrates what I am referring to. There are indeed a lot of things in the Bible that no believer today would agree is humane or even allowable today. And yet, we're suppose to believe that it came from God. Of course, since no believer will ever adhere to things like killing your own children if he or she smites you or selling your daughter to her rapist, the question comes down to "does any Christian truly follow the Bible?"
Western views have obviously changed over the past 200 years. Americans no longer tolerate the ownership of slaves and say it is supported by the Bible but when the ownership of slaves were tolerated, proponents of slavery would also use the Bible to support it. Depending on a person's point of view, the Bible either says that women are to be in subjection to men or the Bible says that women and men are suppose to be treated equally. Interesting perspective, by the way, villagegirl.
But I guess if you take the Bible for what it literally says (not through the lens of someone's interpretation) it is hard to conclude that the Bible is in 100% harmony with Western values. Some parts yes, but not all. Those passages that refer to slaves remaining obedient to their masters, for example, have been reinterpreted by a church I use to attend to mean employees being good workers for their employers. While I really enjoy listening to preachers who can find practical applications of these scriptures that fit our modern way of life, I can't help but to wonder where they get their ideas from. Either God is still speaking, or these people are just (consiously or unconsiously) taking the text and making it fit into our modern values.
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jgnat
A big cultural difference between the New Testament culture and Western culture is the concept of individualism and individual choice. Note in the book of Acts that entire households were baptized. Did that mean that every individual was given a choice in the matter? No. The head of the household declared it Christian and everyone in that household including spouse, children, servants and slaves were also instant Christians.
I feel that Western culture has somehow lost its' way to a sense of the spiritual. I mean, the firstborn isn't slated for the priesthood any more. The goal is to make money to pay for the consumer lifestyle that we have been sold. One must go to college to make money. Careers that make money are valued above all others. The purpose of higher education to create an enlightened generation is so lost, lost.
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Satanus
Don't forget that the major part of the bible isn't christian, although, w the socalled prophecies of the ot, christians try to legitimize it as god originated.
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tootired2care
I was watching this fascinating video by a Yale professor of philosophy, and he makes some powerful points that much of the bible like the Adam and Eve account was added to the bible in the year 400 by Augustine, and that some Christian ideals and many western values are a product of the much older teachings of Plato and Aristotle and have that in common.