by Fernando 24 Replies latest watchtower bible
The liberal Christian stance on a possible God requires keeping up with the
known things God is possible beyond, and, since it's a possibility hoped for,
not proven, that there not be harm over it. (MLK, RFK, S.Colbert, etc.).
Research for a liberal Christian stance on homosexuality about 3/4ths down the
page:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/current/230149/18/Chick-fil-A-Fast-Food-AGAINST-Liberty-and-Equality
The funny thing is the homosexuality of the Bible and its times is quite different from our own.
The Romans, Greeks and others had two forms of homosexuality. It was not "gay" to be the giver, but it was seen as "feminine" to be the "taker". In those societies the men/boys from the lesser classes were not allowed to be the givers to upper class men/boys.
Not many people realise that in the old days people took oaths by grabbing someones balls. The word testament alludes to this. Abraham did this very action when he sent his slave to look for a wife for his son Isaac in Genesis. There are coutnless other parts in the Bible were men do stuff that we would consider gay. David and JOnathan or Samuel and Saul who are said to dance naked all night together. The biBle in Samuel calls it "prophecying".
I think that to survive, religion must stop trying to force people into following a book written thousands of years ago. Religious leaders at one time held the view that the earth was flat and burned at the stake anyone who taught otherwise. They eventually had to accept the overwhelming proof that the world is round. Now, with all that we know about evolution, carbon dating, archaeology, DNA, and so many other things, most people know that the bible is not the infallible book of wisdom that many used to believe. Some religions already accept these things and have progressed to a more accepting view of God, morals and what a church should be. Jesus said to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This golden rule is what Christianity is about to me. I do think many people have a spiritual need, and a church can fulfill this need. Some want nothing to do with religion, and that is understandable, but others can benefit from being part of a faith based community that is more about helping others than condemning others. I think the fundie/JW model of rigid rules and condemnation of homosexuality will graduallys fade away as people become more informed.
Nowhere does the Bible condemn a loving, commited homosexual relationship.
I happen to think because such a relationship was not conceived of by the writers, just as Hebrew had no word for "bachelor".
Fornication, heterosexual or homosexual, is equally seen as wrong by the Bible. The references seemingly condemning homosexual practice per se, if studied properly, are condemning false worship, not the sexuality of a person. Irondork has an excellent thread on this.
Homophobic Right Wing Fundie Bible bashers are as ignorant of their own scriptures, and what they really say, as are Young Earth Creationisits.
I have many gay/lesbian friends and I love them to bits. I accept them in their entirity without judgement. I am human and flawed, how can an almighty god not accept them? Something seriously wrong with that. Means I'm more loving than this god.....means I don't need to entertain this god.
Fernando, great post! Recent news events here in the U.S. have kept the controvesy brewing.
My take: If a person cannot explain why the laws in Leviticus were originally given, then they are certainly in no position to be able to tell people how they are to be applied today. The Levites knew; the nation of Israel knew. But few people today can explain them in detail.
I also wonder, if God is antigay and the nation of Israel was a nation of straight people, why would he have to warn the men against lying down with other men as they would a woman? What would move a straight man to do that? Dr. Laura? I'm waiting for your answer.
Why was bestiality such a big deal that they had to mention it in the bible so many times. Reminds me of the story of the church service where everyone who wanted to come clean could stand up and 'tell it' out loud.
"Tell it brothers and sisters" yells the Minister. A women jumps up and says "I want to tell it. I've been cheating on my husband!" "Tell it" calls out the congregation. "Tell it all!"
A man jumps up and yells out he's got something to tell....."I'm a thief! I got to tell it!"
Overcome with emotion an elderly farmer jumps up and cry's out "I've got to tell it...I've been having sex with my goat......."
Silence falls over the congregation.......... finally the minister addresses the old farmer....."Brother I don't believe I would be telling about that."
Why was bestiality such a big deal that they had to mention it in the bible so many times.
Giordano: Well, first of all, bestiality is in no way related to homosexuality, any more than it's connected to heterosexuality. Bestiality doesn't involve consenting adults and would be considered by most people as cruelty to animals.
But you're right, the Bible mentions bestiality in the Torah, namely, Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Why did God see the need to warn against it at all? It's not likely any of the Israelites were committing bestiality, so why was it mentioned? There's a reason for it and all the other restrictions mentioned in these Bible books. People who don't understand the reason, however, shouldn't be using these verses to apply to people today. If Jesus and the apostles didn't use these OT verses to apply in the first century -- they would certainly have more insight on the purpose behind these verses than we would -- who are we to take them and start beating people over the head with them?
As the apostle wrote at 2 Peter 3:16: "[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
I have said for a while that i believe the hatred of homosexuals in the Bible is simply driven by the small size of the jewish nation. They needed as many solders as possible and this of course requires non homosexual men to have as many wives as possible. If you allow 10% of men to remain in gay relationships that 10% of men not doing their duty and havinv lots of kids.
Islam condemns it. yet they are activiley engaging. In the Arab countries there are even websites advertising she-males.
