by compound complex 19 Replies latest jw friends
Good morning!
"Warrior" and I had an 8-hour visit yesterday centering around many of the issues discussed by JWN members. One point we talked about was Jesus' instruction to make disciples, baptize them and observe all that he has commanded us.
Does a Christian, therefore, need conduct his life solely on what Jesus literally said, i.e., teachings contained in the four Gospels?
Your thoughts are appreciated.
CoCo
Jesus endorsed the Law and the Prophets, and he commissioned the apostles to spread his message. That being the case, I would understand his words as encompassing the teaching of the entire Bible.
Why not take a step back and look at who wrote the gospels, in what year and under what circumstances.
then enjoy your life......
Thanks, Neon and Snare, for your replies!
Much appreciated!
The question, from Warrior's and my point of view, is academic. My manner of posing it, however, didn't make my intent clear. There are so many variables . . . Personally, I wasn't sure what was included in Jesus' teachings.
Gratefully,
CoCo does enjoy life! More than ever.
Frankly, this is a tricky subject. Once can read into it what one wants to.
Christ endorsed the Law and fulfilled it.
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill; for truly I say to YOU that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place. Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. - Matt 5:17-19
Was he referencing this for all time? Or was he talking to the audience of the day, of whom both he and they were still under the Law? When did he fulfill the Law? Perfectly, while he was alive, certainly. Was it when he put to death? Was that the ultimate fulfillment of the law? I tend to think so, based on the writings of Paul and Peter, who would both seem to subtantiate that Christians were no longer under Law.
Christ also said:
“YOU are searching the Scriptures, because YOU think that by means of them YOU will have everlasting life; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. And yet YOU do not want to come to me that YOU may have life. - John 5:39,40
Keeping in mind, again, the time when things were written (before Christ's death vs. after Christ's death):
Paul wrote:
Therefore, as we have such a hope, we are using great freeness of speech, and not doing as when Moses would put a veil upon his face, that the sons of Israel might not gaze intently at the end of that which was to be done away with. But their mental powers were dulled. For to this present day the same veil remains unlifted at the reading of the old covenant, because it is done away with by means of Christ. In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts. But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away. - 1 Cor 3:12-16
However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being delivered up together into custody, looking to the faith that was destined to be revealed. Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor. - Gal 3:23-25
But when the full limit of the time arrived, God sent forth his Son, who came to be out of a woman and who came to be under law, that he might release by purchase those under law, that we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons. - Gal 4:4, 5
And Peter:
Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the preceding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in besides of a better hope did, through which we are drawing near to God. - Heb 7:18,19
What were Christ's commandments?
He that puts faith in me puts faith, not in me [only], but in him [also] that sent me; and he that beholds me beholds [also] him that sent me. I have come as a light into the world, in order that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in the darkness. But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day; because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. Also, I know that his commandment means everlasting life. Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father has told me [them], so I speak [them]. - John 12:44-50
I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. - John 13:34
Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God, exercise faith also in me. - John 14:1
This is my commandment, that YOU love one another just as I have loved YOU. No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends. YOU are my friends if YOU do what I am commanding YOU. - John 15:12-14
Paul, incidentally, talked about this love:
For the [law code], “You must not commit adultery, You must not murder, You must not steal, You must not covet,” and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this word, namely, “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not work evil to one’s neighbor; therefore love is the law’s fulfillment. - Rom 13:9,10
Further:
By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him ?as regards whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. ?Beloved ones, if [our] hearts do not condemn [us], we have freeness of speech toward God; ?and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we are observing his commandments and are doing the things that are pleasing in his eyes. ?Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another, just as he gave us commandment. ?Moreover, he who observes his commandments remains in union with him, and he in union with such one; and by this we gain the knowledge that he is remaining in union with us, owing to the spirit which he gave us. - 1 John 3:19-24
I know this isn't an answer. However, these are some of the relevant verses on the subject. If I were to give an answer, it would be this: Christ said that those who want life should go to him. (Matt 11:27-30; John 5:39,40; John 6:37-40; John 7:37-39)
Oh, but your post is an answer, Leaving!
Thank you so much for your research. What an effort. I'll be sure to share all of the above with Warrior, who has no online access.
All the best.
CC
I really was not being flippant...
why restrict to the words of jesus to those selected by the Catholic Church in the 'accepted' gospels? What else did he possibly say? What is true, what is not?
If you want to make life decisions based on these accounts, first one much analyse the source of the material.
if for some reason, one is determined to say the bible as it is, is exactly as it is supposed to be. Then that makes life easy. Jesus (not his name) is god or was the son of god, and shared in the genocides, slavery, incest, rape, murder, war, infanticide, sexism, racism, homophobia and blood sacrifices of the Old Testament and deserves derision not worship. His words should be avoided at all costs and one should look to other sources for enlightenment and a pathway of good will and a good life. Jesus supposedly spoke of slaves on numerous times, made references to global genocide by flood, he spoke of Abraham, the man willing to kill his child because the crazy dictator in heaven demanded it.....
I mean seriously...... If one wants to be 'academic' then lets do it properly. Exchange the name God with Hitler and Jesus with Sadam and see if the actions of these two are quite as beautiful.
"there will always be poor"
nice!
Snare
12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.
Why don't JW's wash each others feet. Their excuse is that we don't walk with sandals on dusty roads anymore. But that misses the point of instituting a ritual. A ritual is intended to be repeated so that the lesson becomes more than just a nice thought blazing through the brain. A ritual is a memory device that involves our motor centers The ritual of washing someone's feet remains a humbling act. If you don't have to obey the command to wash each others feet you don't need to get baptized either.
The history of the beginning of Christianity is very sketchy. Why didn't Jesus write something "for Christ's sake". Or he could have at least had a personal scribe take notes.
Sounds like one is not only to go to him (Christ) but to do what he is commanding a follower to do (the scripture that sums up all of the commandments) in order to stand up to the judging in the last day.
crikey snare.
Are people not allowed to believe whatever they want to believe and discuss whatever they want to discuss without being shot down. Some of us like to discuss the book. I too would be interestd in the information he's asking about.
