JULY 15th Study Watchtower - NEW LIGHT IS FANTASY (page 3)

The Searcher

@ Leaving Quietly

Good Scriptural point!!

Thanks for that.

It is important to remember that even though the Holy Spirit was poured out in 33c.e in a specific way, attendance was not a requirement. Think of others like the man of whom Jesus said, " He who is not against us is for us." Was that guy present in the upper room? We don't know. How many people were following Christ around? We don't know.

I am with you, it is highly doubtful that 12 Disciples fed thousands without help. The new light is just a crock.

Ding

Anyone that can try and find a correllation between feeding a crowd with bread and fish, and the dispensing of spiritual information 2000 years later, is clearly clutching at straws.

The WTS has a long history of creating speculative "types" out of narrative accounts.

Rutherford had a "Ruth class," "Mordecai class," and on and on, all of it made up to mean whatever he wanted to require at the time.

Once you establish this method of Bible interpretation, where does it stop?

For example, Peter fell into a trance, had a vision, and was directed in so many words to go to one particular house to witness to Cornelius. Likewise, Ananias received a direct word from Jesus to go baptize Saul of Tarsus and welcome him as a new Christian.

Should we draw end times conclusions from these events? Should GB members (or "anointed" JWs) in "these last days" expect to fall into trances, have visions, and be directed by words from heaven to go alone to an individual house to witness to or baptize specific individuals? Why not?

If we are only considering Jesus' own personal ministry, in Matthew 13 Jesus went out in a boat and preached to people on shore. What implications does this have for how the FDS should conduct the preaching work right before Armageddon? Should they charter boats? In support of this conclusion is Psalm 107:23-24: "Those going down to the sea in the ships, doing business on vast waters, they are the ones that have seen the works of Jehovah and his wonderful works in the depths..." (NWT) What more "wonderful work" can there be in the last days than the preaching work?

Jesus also once cast demons into a herd of swine. What analogous work should the FDS be doing as a result?

There's no end to what you can teach as biblical if you make up these analogies as you go along...

prologos

searcher: good !! -- another wt illustration gone wrong. if we think about it. it was originally

The MANY feeding the FEW-- all Israelites providing through the tithe -- food right up to the top in that food pyramid scheme.

If only wt would have listened to the many letters received in Brooklyn, they would not be in the doctrinal mess they are in now.

good sound spiritual food was availble to them from the many. The MANY in Daniel 12 . not the few-- 8 in NY USofA

Eden one: there were at least 500 "brothers" before pentecost to who The "resurrected" Christ is reported to have appeared to - before "going to heaven".

wt uses illustrations to illustrate the illustrations about Jesu' illustrations. muddling, not illuminating.

rocketman

Some excellent (and funny) comments.

I am forced to wonder how many are actually involved in the distribution of so-called spiritual food. There are people besides the Governing Body who are involved. The GB clearly doesn't do it all - they just have oversight of it. And I wonder how much direct oversight they really have in terms of actual, hands-on involvement.

AndDontCallMeShirley

The WTS has a long history of creating speculative "types" out of narrative accounts.

To expand on Ding's point, in the 3-1-81 Watchtower, the same issue that strongly stated in 1981 that the "new light" teaching now in the 7-15-13 Watchtower was apostate thinking, included a long list of types that the WT was claiming pointed without question to the FDS/GB. The list is both absurd and completely irrational. Noah's wife prefigured the FDS; sure, I can see that...NOT ! :

*** w81 3/1 p. 27 Do You Appreciate the "Faithful and Discreet Slave"? ***

OVERWHELMING CREDENTIALS

The "faithful and discreet slave" has abundant credentials. Following is a partial list of Scriptural and prophetic designations applying to or being represented in the remnant of Jesus Christ’s anointed followers since the notable year 1919:

(1) Noah’s wife, Gen. 7:7; (2) angels sent to Lot, Gen. 19:15; (3) Rebekah, Gen. 24:64; (4) Joseph and Benjamin, Gen. 45:14; (5) gleanings left behind, Lev. 19:9; (6) two spies to Rahab, Josh. 2:4; (7) Barak, Judg. 4:14; (8) Jephthah, Judg. 11:34; (9) Naomi and Ruth, Ruth 2:2; (10) David’s Israelite warriors, 2 Sam. 18:1; (11) Jehu, 2 Ki. 10:11, 15; (12) Mordecai and Esther, Esther 4:13; (13) Job, Job 42:10, 13; (14) King’s daughter, Ps. 45:13; (15) men of loving-kindness, Ps. 50:5; (16) intimate group, Ps. 89:7; (17) Shear-jashub, Isa. 7:3; (18) light of the nations, Isa. 60:3; (19) big trees of righteousness, Isa. 61:3; (20) ministers of our God, Isa. 61:6; (21) cluster preserved, Isa. 65:8; (22) servants called by another name, Isa. 65:15; (23) men trembling at God’s word, Isa. 66:5; (24) new nation born, Isa. 66:8; (25) Jeremiah, Jer. 1:10; (26) Jehovah’s people in the new covenant, Jer. 31:33; (27) enduring watchman, Ezek. 3:16-27; (28) man in linen, Ezek. 9:2; (29) cleansed people, Ezek. 36:29-32; (30) dwellers in center of earth, Ezek. 38:12; (31) the host of heaven, Dan. 8:10; (32) sanctuary restored (cleansed), Dan. 8:14; (33) they that are wise, Dan. 11:33; (34) the happy one who is keeping in expectation, Dan. 12:12; (35) all flesh receiving the spirit, Joel 2:28; (36) Jonah, Jon. 3:1-3; (37) apple of Jehovah’s eye, Zech. 2:8; (38) liberated remnant, Zech. 2:7; (39) a Jew, Zech. 8:23; (40) sons of Levi, Mal. 3:3; (41) wheat, Matt. 13:25; (42) sons of the kingdom, Matt. 13:38; (43) workers for the vineyard, Matt. 20:1; (44) those invited to marriage feast, Matt. 22:3-14; (45) chosen ones, Matt. 24:22; (46) eagles, Matt. 24:28; (47) faithful and discreet slave, Matt. 24:45; (48) discreet virgins, Matt. 25:2; (49) brothers of the king, Matt. 25:40; (50) little flock of sheep, Luke 12:32; (51) beggar Lazarus, Luke 16:20; (52) sheep in "this fold," John 10:1-16; (53) branches of the vine, John 15:4; (54) royal palace of David, Acts 15:16; (55) heirs with Christ, Rom. 8:17; (56) the remnant, Rom. 11:5; (57) branches in the olive tree, Rom. 11:24; (58) holy ones or saints, 1 Cor. 6:2; Rev. 16:6; (59) temple, 1 Cor. 6:19; (60) new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; (61) ambassadors for Christ, 2 Cor. 5:20; (62) congregation of God, Gal. 1:13; (63) part of Abraham’s seed, Gal. 3:29; (64) Israel of God, Gal. 6:16; (65) body of Christ, Eph. 1:22, 23; (66) soldiers of Christ Jesus, 2 Tim. 2:3; (67) house under Christ, Heb. 3:6; (68) holy priesthood, 1 Pet. 2:5; (69) holy nation, 1 Pet. 2:9; (70) association of brothers, 1 Pet. 2:17; (71) seven congregations, Rev. 1:20; (72) twenty-four persons of advanced age, Rev. 4:4; (73) spiritual Israel, Rev. 7:4; (74) locusts, Rev. 9:3; (75) two witnesses, Rev. 11:3; (76) two olive trees, Rev. 11:4; (77) seed of the woman, Rev. 12:17; (78) New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:2; (79) the bride of Christ, Rev. 22:17; 19:7; (80) Jehovah’s witnesses, Isa. 43:10.

leaving_quietly

I'm not sure what the calculation is here, but it occurs to me that using the memorial passing of the bread might be a good indicator. We had over 200 at our memorial and 8 men serving. It took 4-5 minutes to serve all 200 people. It seems like it would be about 6.25 people served per person per minute.

Using that, 12 people could serve about 75 people per minute.

Using that, about 4500 people could be served in one hour.

Granted, the people served at the memorial are all neatly lined up in rows, and the majority are not actually taking anything... just passing the plate along. so the serving is probably as efficient as it could be. Not quite so on a mountain. Also, factor in women and children and the number is definitely higher than 5000.

Would it be doable in a 1-2 hour time frame with just 12 people serving? Seems like it might be.

Of course, I think using "few to feed many" is ludicrous. That most certainly was NOT the point.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Searcher: Interesting catch, thanks for sharing.

From what I know about the GB, I don't think I could trust them to make me a sandwich. So how could I trust them to get anything else right?

Terry

CONTEXT seems unimportant to Watchtower exegesis.

Is the quoted scripture really about DISTRIBUTION METHODS or is it about a MIRACLE?

Let's ask another question. Would it make any sense whatsoever for distribution of food to a large crowd to be done ANY OTHER WAY than having his supporters distribute it?

The point of the passage quoted is that Jesus could miraculously feed people actual food. Get that? ACTUAL food. NOT SPIRITUAL. If Jesus had PREACHED it would have been spiritual food---which is what the GOVERNING BODY are claiming they distribute!

The miracle of loaves and fishes produced TOO MUCH actual food--the leftovers were gathered into 12 baskets. The point is that Jesus miracle completely satisfied the physical appetites of 5,000 men AND also women and children.

man oh man

this week end at our assembly the CO in one of his talks said that many are not liking the new watchtower.

JULY 15th Study Watchtower - NEW LIGHT IS FANTASY