Is The Governing Body EVIL?

by jst2laws 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    I am going to stick my neck out and postulate that the GB is not EVIL
    nor is the Watchtower society as a whole. I'm sorry this got a little long but please accept the challenge and show me wrong.

    Evil= 1 Morally wrong or bad, wicked; 2 Harmful, injurious.
    (Random House Webster’s Dictionary)

    By this dictionary definition we are all Evil at times. Are we now to try to evaluate levels of evil or duration of periods of evil to determine who is more evil than others?

    I like a different definition that I got from Scott Peck in his book People of the Lie. Though I cannot quote an exact reference my recollection is that he defined an evil person as one who will harm others knowingly for what he can gain out of it.

    If we accept this definition, I ask again “Is the GB Evil?”

    Ray Franz in his book Crisis of Conscience on page 262 says:

    I feel only compassion for those men I know, for I too was such a “victim of victims” a “follower of followers”.
    I admire Ray’s candor and forbearance. He also relates evidence that N.H. Knorr too was a “victim of victims” on page 248 of C of C in regard to the 1914 controversy:

    There are some things I know---I know that Jehovah is God, that Christ Jesus is his son, that he gave his life as a ransom for us, that there is a resurrection. Other things I’m not so certain about. 1914---I don’t know. We have talked about 1914 for a long time. We may be right and I hope we are.
    Having served at Bethel from the late 60’s to the mid 70’ Nathan Knorr was probably my least liked member of the GB (most of the time I was there he WAS the GB). Yet even his comments sound not like a man bent on harming people for what he could get out of it, but perhaps a ‘follower of followers’, ‘victim of victims’. My feeling about the other members of the GB whom I knew is the same.

    We were once all ‘followers of followers’. As such we all did things that caused harm to others.

    Did we not lead others to the same victimization by our sharing in the “kingdom preaching”?

    Did we by word and example recommend the “truth” to co-workers, relatives, neighbors and friends? (God forbid)

    Did not some of us raise our children into this same dependency as followers of followers? ( I have asked my kids to forgive me)

    Some of us have been even more evil(?) as a follower. I went along with decisions of the body that I was certain would harm someone. I justified it for what I believed would be for the good overall for the individual or the congregation. I really believed it at the time. Now I see I isolated needy people from support and separated family members.

    How many of you at one time shunned DF’d or DA’d friends or relatives knowing it hurt them but believing it was right and good for all concerned?

    Does this make us all EVIL, or does it indicate we were victims of victims?

    I have dealt with some evil people (individuals) inside the organization. Yes, I believe we have all run into those individuals who would hurt us or others intentionally to obtain their goals. In my case they were mostly Bethelites, CO’s, DO’s, Elders and several manipulative, self-righteous sisters. But these were individuals who knowingly harmed others .

    Yes we will find evil people in the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Inc. But if finding evil individuals inside an organization of ‘followers’ makes the entire organization and its leadership EVIL, then the WT is right in labeling all governments, religions, and commerce as evil on the same bases. I think not.

    But the GB claims to speak for God! This is profound, I agree. Does this claim make them more reprehensible? Perhaps. You tell me. So far I see “followers of followers”, even those appointed and told they ‘speak for God’ as victims of previous propaganda, a terrible delusion. At that level rather than evil in these men, I see the height of delusion and stupidity.

    What do you think? Now be kind!

    Jst2laws

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    The GB calls publicly, loudly, and endlessly for the death of children, some as young as a few days old,. (blood transfusuion issue). They have since 1948 possibly, and definitely since the 1960's. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

    The GB calls publicly, loudly, and endlessly for the expulsion and shunning of rape/molestation survivors, and has since 1964. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

    The GB calls publicly, loudly, and endlessly for the protection of pedohiles within its organization. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

    The GB is one step removed from serial killers, and climbing. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

    UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    YES!!!

    Ven

    "Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, and dance like no one is watching!!!"

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    I used to exercise restraint in saying they were evil. I still would probably hold back from making such a statement.

    At the same time it would seem that certain ones have been exposed to information that should raise serious concerns over their actions and policies. By failing to act on this information, while at the same time having accepted a position of responsibility, they should be held accountable for their actions and those directly influenced by them.

    I think they have carried out many evil deeds without an evil motive. Basically this is what religion is all about.

    Path

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Dear dungbeetle,

    Please do not confuse my expressions above as an excuse for so much harm caused by this heartless machine.

    The atrocities you cite above are unexcusable. Their stand on 'blood', 'shunning', and 'pedophiles' is difinitely HARMFUL.
    I an not excusing any of this.

    The question I raise is more social or phsycological than LEGAL. The GB has made decisions that has caused harm and they have refused to change policy that continues to harm.

    The question is really how we define "EVIL". If we are too broad in our condemnation we may also condemn ourselves. I do not feel you or I should feel excessive guilt for our participation because we were 'followers'. I feel like a fool for following, but what can we do now?

    Ray Franz did not feel the men he sat with across the GB table were Evil! They were defending a system they thought was God's arrangement. We agree they were wrong but does that make them evil?

    Jst2laws

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : Though I cannot quote an exact reference my recollection is that he defined an evil person as one who will harm others knowingly for what he can gain out of it.

    : If we accept this definition, I ask again “Is the GB Evil?”

    Yes. The GB knew for years that alternative military service could not be supported in scripture, yet they allowed countless thousands of young men to be imprisoned because they were afraid of repurcussions.

    The same is true today of the blood issue. They know their stance is wrong. Why do you think they've slowly kept softening their position over the years? And people still die because they knowingly harm others for "something they can get out of it": being protected from lawsuits, and not having to admit they were wrong.

    They are a bunch of self-worshiping, self-glorifing, self-promoting evil men.

    If not that, they are murderous assholes. Let's not mince definitions. Judas is considered one of the most evil men in the Bible, yet he merely succombed to a weak moment and sold Jesus out for a few bucks. The GB collectively have sold out millions and killed thousands over the decades and yet they themselves live like and are treated like kings, and only change when they have no other choice.

    Let's not mince definitions here, jst2laws. I see you're still in your own "Crisis of Conscience" process. That's fine. You're just where you need to be. I wish you the best in sorting it all out for yourself.

    Farkel

  • jst2laws
    jst2laws

    Path,

    On my anniversary post in early March I noticed you were one of the most influential respondents to my original post last year. I just wanted to say first that you have often impressed me yet I have failed to express this to you and others appropriately.

    You said:

    By failing to act on this information, while at the same time having accepted a position of responsibility, they should be held accountable for their actions and those directly influenced by them
    That is very logical. We all feel compelled to hold someone at the top responsible. They led us wrong and we were harmed by that lead.

    But my question is not whether or not they mislead us, but whether or not they knowingly mislead us. My personal opinion is that there must have been some there either on the GB or in the writing or service dept. that knew enough to object. It seems some did and got thrown out. I suspect there are others who kept quiet and supported a harmful system to protect themselves from exposure.

    That I believe would be 'Evil'.

    This may be the case of some on the GB. But my experience was that most of the GB were appointed not because of their reputation as researchers and independent thinkers. They stuck it out at Bethel long enough to get appointed by seniority or default. Later they started to bring big shots in from outside Brooklyn Bethel who proved themselves not by their intellect or history of intense Bible research but incontestable support of the system, dependable 'followers'.

    So, yes, they "accepted a position of responsibility" and perhaps "they should be held accountable for their actions and those directly influenced by them." But if they were still followers of a harmful system already set in motion, whatever level they served, are they that much more reprehensible before God. Most of us to different degrees 'followed' and 'harmed' others during our involvement in the organization.

    So we may be talking of degrees of accountability. Does that translate to degrees of "Evil"? If so, we were all evil to some degree.

    I am not so hard on myself or others on this board. I do not believe we have many evil people here. We were 'victims'.

    Is Ray F. wrong that the GB too were 'victims of victims.'?

    Jst2laws

  • ChiChiMama
    ChiChiMama

    They are beyond evil in my opinion.

    Claiming to have God in their hip pocket doesn't excuse all the atrocities they have perpretrated on their own members and their families.
    There is no excuse for what they have done.

    Ray Franz doesn't condem them because he would still be one of them if things didn't happen as they did.I sensed a sadness and longing in his books over the loss of position and his buddies on the GB.

    The Talaban claims to have the true religion and that the almighty backs them.
    Does that excuse them? NO and neither is the GB excused.

    ChiChi

  • lastcall
    lastcall

    I think comparing the GB to the Taliban is quite a stretch. I also think we all should consider that although they have great influence over many peoples lives, those people influenced, in the vast majority, accept that influence. Wether they claim to be God's sole channel on earth or not, those who believe theyn are, ultimately make that choice to believe for themselves. I know many would say, "Well, what about the children who suffer through no choice of their own?" To that question I answer "Well, what about those children's parents who foolishly followed a dogma that would harm their own children?" I know, for me, I decided shortly after my first kid was born, that there would be no way that I would deny my children a blood transfusion if I thought it was the best chance they had to save their life. This was 8 years before I stopped believing in "The Truth". I just decided that I was not convinced enough, about the blood issue, to risk my child's life. Everybody wants to dehumanize those men on the GB. But really we were all right there with them. Yes, to a much smaller degree, but still. The sad truth is people suffer and even die for their religion. That is not unique to JW's. But if we are pissed off at the lives that we lived in the past, we really only have one place to look. The Mirror. If we were a minor child when we had a miserable JW life, then look in the mirror, then look at Mom and Dad.

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    I think the GB is very EVIL.
    And I don't need to explain myself to justify my thoughts because to me when you come out of mind control you see its evil and I dare say that any ExJW that does not see it as EVIL has residual mind control to get rid of.
    I think Ray Franz is still under a little of the JW mind control if he don't feel the EVIL of the GB.

    Join the Watchtower or you will die.
    Only Jehovah's Witnesses have the TRUTH all other religions EVIL and from the Devil.
    You must beleive the Watchtower or you're going to die a painful death forever, isn't that really GOOD NEWS?

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