To be fair, how many Dubs are really aware of what's going on. We don't know this man personally. We do know that in his mind, he was being faithful to his Creator. I think that is admirable. How many of us would stand up for our ideals like he did? It's not like he was in Crooklyn denying people in Malawi the chance to live.... He was a victim.
Another Jehovah-Witness-supportive documentary
by A.M. Number 1 14 Replies latest jw friends
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L3G
Thanks for the link.
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Nathan Natas
DATA-DOG challenged, " How many of us would stand up for our ideals like he did?"
How ill-informed are you?
Prior to 1973 there was a military c onscription in the USA, commonly called "the Draft." Since 1948 all men, ages 18 to 26, were requred to register, and then it was up to each individual to petition his local draft board for exemption. ALL Jehovah's Witnesses were expected by their religious leaders to take a rigid and uncompromising stand as "conscientious objectors" to military servce, refusing all forms of alternate service (because that would be "compromising" their loyalty to Jehovah by accepting the authority of The State. Taking this position would expose ALL JW men to the possibility of being arrested and sent to a Federal Prison. ALL of the male posters here who were JWs when they turnrd eighteen had to take ths stand, and there are posters here who served tme in Federal Prison because of their closely-held religious beliefs.
IF the 18 year-ols male JW did not follow the WATCHTOWER rules he would be subject to excommunication from the JWs.
So your challenge has been answered.
There is nothing unique about Leopold Engleitner, and as a person who "took a stand," I resent your suggestion that he was some kind of modern Daniel in the Lion's Den. He was a misguided youth who followed the rules of The WATCHTOWER and paid the price for doing so. The WATCHTOWER didn't serve time in prison, Leopold did, and now the WATCHTOWER is happy to show him off as a "man of faith." BALONEY.
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Weana
@ Nathan Natas: HOW ILL-INFORMED ARE YOU ?
1.) "There are posters here who served tme in Federal Prison ... They stood up for their ideals like he did ... There is nothing unique about Leopold Engleitner, and as a person who took a stand, I ..."
In the United States, if the worst came the worst, a conscientious rejector was sent to Federal Prison for a few years.
In the Third Reich, in the very best case, a conscientious rejector was not sentenced to death (guillotine), but sent to concentration camp, usually without any chance to be released as long as the Third Reich would exist.
And you really want to tell us that these situations are comparable? How ill-informed you are!
2.) "He was a misguided youth" ... "18 year-ols male JW ... would be subject to excommunication"
How ill-informed are you?
When Leopold Engleitner homeland was annexed by the Third Reich, he was 34 years old. When he rejected to serve in Hitler's army, he was already 40 years old. He wasn't a youth anymore.
And he did not reject military service because of any fear of being excommunicated or shunned by his parents. On the contrary, at that time, he had been shunned already for many years by his intolerant Catholic neighbourhood because he had become on of Jehovah's Witnesses.
3.) "He was a misguided ... who followed the rules of The Watchtower"
How ill-informed are you?
As we all know, there are a lot of man-made rules in the Watchtower world. However, rules as "love your neighbor", "love your enemies", "give to God what is God's", "you shall not kill" are NOT "rules of the Watchtower". These are biblical rules, respected by wholehearted Christians.
4.) "and now the Watchtower is happy to show him off..."
How ill-informed are you?
Leopold Engleitner was 84 years old when a young author decided to write a book about his life. He was not encouraged at all by the WTS to appear before the public. On the contrary, many elders were suspicious of that young author.
5.) Engleitner "is an old fool who doesn't reserve respect"
If you don't know the score, better just be silent.
I think, this will be my last posting on this website.
I am a Christian. Officially, I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Websites like this one have provided me with a lot of useful information to see through WTS doctrines. I want to thank all the users who are helping JWs and former JWs by constructive inputs.
But unobjective, arrogant, ignorant, hate-filled postings like yours are preventing a lot of others who are still "inside" to take apostates seriously. It is really disencouraging to read such postings. I think it's better for me to fight alone.
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Nathan Natas
"I think, this will be my last posting on this website."
Where's yor spine, your coat of spiritual armor? Go preach to your choir.
It is possible that you are not a male resident in the USA who would have been subjected to the Draft during the days it was active.
If you were it is unlikely that you would so easily dismiss what 18 year old Americans gave up. You are talking through your Sunday bonnet.